 can&#8217;t we just go back to how it was? Can we never talk about finance? Can we not think about money at all?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then on the other hand, you&#8217;ve got places like where you work, who are, with the best will in the world, it&#8217;s about making some revenue, and making money, and paying the bills and all of that. You&#8217;ve got to figure out, how the heck do you make contributions? How do you justify that to your bosses? How do they communicate what they&#8217;ve done effectively?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And presumably part of your talk as well is about finding people that you would like to just give some money to as a helping hand to say, okay, off you go. You&#8217;re not a part of the Kinsta organisation, but we would like to help you. And in return, presumably there&#8217;s a bit of mutual back rubbing. We&#8217;ll pat your back, you pat ours, and so on and so forth. So hopefully I&#8217;ve parsed that about right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:39] <strong>Roger Williams:</strong> Yeah, no, I think you&#8217;re laying it out very much as I&#8217;m going through in the talk is, we need to talk business. And I know that for a lot of people inside of open source, this can be cringey and not pleasant and not what we want to do. And my argument is we have to get over that phase. We have to learn to start talking business and thinking business, thinking about return on investment.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so to me it&#8217;s becoming practical, right? We have this optimistic idea of like, well, people will just come to their senses and realise that if they sponsor and contribute to the project, it&#8217;s going to help them. And we need to be much more strategic and more practical about it. And I break it down into three reasons to start kind of looking at when you&#8217;re talking to executives, you&#8217;re talking to businesses. And so there&#8217;s strategic, operational and second order benefits.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So when I&#8217;m talking about strategic benefits, I mean this is where it&#8217;s just obvious, right? For a hosting company that does WordPress, it just makes sense. Like, if WordPress isn&#8217;t working well, then we&#8217;re going to have trouble with our product. So strategically, it makes sense if WordPress works well, if it&#8217;s performing, if it&#8217;s secure, this is going to lower our cost as a hosting company. So those are arguments to be putting forward there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>From an operational perspective, you can start talking about technical debt, right? And this is where the CTO&#8217;s eyes should light up, because technical debt is a real problem for any company that builds software. As you&#8217;re building software, you now have to maintain that software. Well, if you&#8217;re able to offload part of that software into the open source project, it now becomes something that the open source project maintains. It&#8217;s the technical debt of the project.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That now creates a vicious cycle, or not even vicious, but just a cycle of, you now need to contribute to the project to help maintain that technical debt. But you&#8217;re now, as an organisation, offloading that to a larger organisation and having more people being able to help maintain that software. So I think from an operational perspective, those are arguments that you can hit people with.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then finally, the second order benefits, and this is really where it kind of encompasses the arguments that have been traditionally the philanthropic argument, the just maker taker argument and stuff like that. With second order benefits, you start seeing these additional benefits that maybe you can&#8217;t exactly measure.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This is where networking is happening. People are meeting and talking to each other. Maybe your developers are talking to their developers, or in the case of sponsoring contributors, those contributors can come into your organisation and help the organisation maybe understand how to use WordPress better and these different benefits.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so breaking it down into these practical arguments, these practical reasons for contributing can really help people who are not necessarily as well versed with open source or don&#8217;t directly see the benefits, see that a little bit better.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then getting into what you&#8217;re also talking about, finding contributors who, maybe they align with your values, making sure that they&#8217;re working on the stuff that you need them to be working on. The parts of the project that could use attention as far as your organisation is seeing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then also, you know, one of the big things I look for is contributors who are mentors and are helping other contributors get into the project and help to grow the project&#8217;s contributions overall.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There&#8217;s direct, tangible things. Hey, there&#8217;s this ticket, could you go work on this ticket? I&#8217;ll be honest, I&#8217;m not that in depth yet. I&#8217;ve had contributors be like, hey, usually organisations are that pointed. And I&#8217;m like, okay, well there&#8217;s a goal for me to achieve at some point.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But for me it&#8217;s more like, hey, are you doing good work? What are other people saying about you in the project? And then, are you mentoring people and helping other people do their first bug squash, and do their first push and commit and things like that? And I&#8217;m butchering the language of course here but, you know, I hope that that kind of helps answer some of those questions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:36] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, it&#8217;s interesting because I fear that there&#8217;s a possibility that the community kind of bifurcates along these lines at the moment. So you get the people, and I was using the word philanthropic, so the people that have been contributing their time for gratis, just because they saw that as a useful thing to do for humanity, let&#8217;s put it that way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So there&#8217;s that on the one hand. And then on the other hand, you&#8217;ve got people such as yourself who are talking about the necessary things in order for your job and your institution to function, the money. And I suppose I&#8217;m kind of worried that we will have these two sides that kind of can&#8217;t figure out a way to communicate with each other, that can&#8217;t see across the chasm that has been created. And so figuring out ways to make those work to sort of have a happy balance so that the two sides can communicate, that they can be back in touch with each other.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that&#8217;s kind of a concern that I have, this sort of two tier system. The fear more broadly is that, if the money side of things becomes more prevalent, and people find that intolerable, that ultimately will push people away who have been philanthropic and amazing in the use of their time and pushing the project forward. They&#8217;ll see this as something that they can&#8217;t cope with in the future, and they&#8217;ll wish to step away, not contribute to it. That would be a shame.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:52] <strong>Roger Williams:</strong> So I can absolutely empathise and understand the argument that you&#8217;re putting forth there. I think the way I would counter that is to say, hey, currently if we&#8217;re only going to talk in a philanthropic sense, are we just going to exclude everybody from what you&#8217;re talking about, the second tier, right? The more money focused. So we&#8217;re just not even having a conversation in that case.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:15] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Right. That&#8217;s the concern, yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:17] <strong>Roger Williams:</strong> So what I&#8217;m trying to argue is, hey, by bringing in more people into the project and maybe starting to talk in these practical ROI business terms, were now at least having a conversation that before wasn&#8217;t even happening. Because just to kind of back up a second, the way I&#8217;m looking at it is, if the only argument is, hey, this is philanthropic, you&#8217;re doing it for the good of the project, kumbaya, then we&#8217;re just going to exclude a lot of the business community who&#8217;s going to go, well, yeah, I volunteer time on the weekend at my church, or do different things, but I need to do business during the week so I can buy groceries and pay the rent.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so I think what I&#8217;m trying to suggest is, hey, if we expand the conversation beyond just philanthropic, beyond just the second order benefits, and we talk about operational and strategic benefits in addition, we&#8217;re now adding more people to the conversation that weren&#8217;t in the conversation before.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And eventually we&#8217;re bringing them into the second order conversation, but we have to start by bringing them in with the strategic and the operational, because that&#8217;s where their mindset is in the nine to five. And so to me, I think this is the opportunity to actually expand the pie and expand the amount of people in the project and talking about the project.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The concern I see that is a fair argument and concern is, are we going to turn open source projects into just commercial enterprises? That is definitely a concern. I don&#8217;t see that happening because you still have the core people in the project. They&#8217;re doing it because they believe in what the project is and they have passion for it. And if they are able to expand and have these conversations, these larger conversations, or additional conversations, about strategic and operational benefits, we&#8217;re going to bring more people in and hopefully help to influence those people to see the second order benefits, and hopefully eventually it&#8217;s all just philanthropic, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I think right now, the argument that has been put forth by different people in open source and in the WordPress community, is that we don&#8217;t have enough people contributing. We don&#8217;t have enough sponsorship money coming in, and so we need to figure out how to bridge that gap. And my suggestion is the way to do that is to expand the conversation beyond just the philanthropic, beyond just the second order, and talking about strategic and operational in addition to those.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:40] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I have so many thoughts about this. So the first thing that comes into my head is trying to bridge a gap between the people out there at the moment who have been contributing. But you go around on Twitter, X, I guess, and you see people, don&#8217;t you? You see it all the time. They even sometimes change their Twitter handle to, you know, seeking sponsorship or something like that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But periodically you&#8217;ll see somebody who you know has been in the WordPress space for many years and, I don&#8217;t know, maybe they have been contributing in some way, shape, or form, but it&#8217;s pretty clear that they would like to be sponsored for this particular rabbit hole that they&#8217;ve gone down. And so building a bridge to them is something I think really useful about what you&#8217;re saying.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because maybe there is no way of these two sides talking to each other. Maybe there is no kind of like a la carte menu, if you like. If you are one of these philanthropic contributors, and you&#8217;ve never sought sponsorship before, but you&#8217;d like the idea of, well, wouldn&#8217;t it be nice if, for these two days a week that I typically contribute my time, wouldn&#8217;t it be nice to get some finance? I&#8217;ll do the exact same thing, but I&#8217;ll actually receive some money for that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I don&#8217;t have the time to go out to a hundred different companies with my, I&#8217;m going to use the word begging bowl. That is probably the wrong term, but you get the point. To these a hundred different companies saying, look, I&#8217;ve been doing this for ages. Can you help me out?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That kind of feels, there&#8217;s something quite icky about that, isn&#8217;t there? I think we can all identify that going out and sort of saying to companies repeatedly, please can I have some money? And then getting the inevitable 99% pushback. No, we haven&#8217;t got any money for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I think what you are saying is you are going to build a system where that kind of stuff will be more obvious. Where you&#8217;ll say, these are the kind of things that we&#8217;re looking for. Here&#8217;s the application form if you want to sponsor. This is the kind of process that we&#8217;re going to go through. These are the interview questions that we&#8217;re typically going to answer. This is the pot of money that we&#8217;ve got available. This is how many people we want, and so on and so forth.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it&#8217;s kind of bridging the gap, so that the people who have been contributing, who are maybe nervous or don&#8217;t see a way forward, can suddenly step into something more obvious, more a la carte, more straightforward and easy to kind of cherry pick.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:46] <strong>Roger Williams:</strong> Yeah. I think that, you know, this is getting to the heart of it, right? How do you individually sponsor people? How do individuals find sponsorship? And how do we make this all work? And backing up just for a second , there&#8217;s two ways to look at contributing to open source projects.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We&#8217;re talking a lot about sponsoring individual contributors, which I would argue is the best way for an organisation to get started, because it&#8217;s the easiest way in some sense, right? There&#8217;s an established person who&#8217;s working in the project. You are giving them cash to do that work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The other way to contribute to the project is to actually spend time working on the project, right? So maybe you&#8217;ve got engineers inside of the company and you&#8217;re like, okay, 10% of your time is, or 5% of your time you&#8217;re going to actually work on this project. That&#8217;s a much bigger ask, right? Because usually when you hire an employee, you have a very specific set of tasks that you need to work on them for the company.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so asking the manager to figure out, hey, how can this person give 5% of their time to something that&#8217;s outside of the company? That&#8217;s a bigger ask. So I think, for companies and organizations that are starting to dip their toe into contributing to open source, sponsored contributions is a great place to start.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So that was a long way to get around to the question that you&#8217;re posing here, is how do you actually do that? There&#8217;s a chicken and the egg kind of situation that you&#8217;re bringing up, right? At what point does an individual contributor know that, hey, Kinsta is a company to reach out to, and ask for sponsored contribution. And then on the flip side, how does Kinsta know who to reach out to to sponsor?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so my suggestion is to create a couple of different systems. So first, from the organisational perspective, really understanding, what are the priorities for the organisation? What would benefit them the most by sponsoring individual contributors?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>My argument is it&#8217;s a pretty wide swath. A lot of people get focused on core contributors and, actually working on tickets and things like that. I think it&#8217;s a much broader effect. I think sponsoring people that are on the Polyglots team, Kinsta, over half of our customers don&#8217;t speak English. So having WordPress in non-English versions is huge for us. So sponsoring the Polyglots team.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The documentation team is huge, right? People need to be able to use WordPress . So are they going to contact Kinsta support for how to use WordPress, or can they just go to the WordPress site and look at documentation?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So as an organization, you can get really strategic on this, but my argument would be, don&#8217;t overthink it at the beginning. Just get started. And I think that&#8217;s how I kind of end my talk is, my biggest piece of advice is don&#8217;t wait. Just get started. Set aside some budget that you&#8217;re comfortable with, that your executives are comfortable with, and then go and find some contributors.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then have kind of a process, right? Have an intake form. You mentioned having an intake form. Have an intake form. Ask them questions about, what do they currently work on? What have they worked on in the past? What are their hopes and goals and aspirations on the project?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then, you know, some very practical questions. Hey, would you be open to doing a blog post about your work and how Kinsta has helped with this? Very low level asks, right? We&#8217;re not trying to ask people to get a tattoo of the logo on their forehead or something insane. It&#8217;s very low effort, and my argument to companies is be very cautious. Step lightly into the marketing aspect of all of this. That should not be your primary focus.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The primary focus is contributing to the open source project, not getting all this marketing benefit out of it. And so, you know, make sure to frame it that way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>From the individual contributors thing, one thing I do point out is, up until recently, I&#8217;ve never actually been formally approached by somebody asking for sponsorship to contribute. You kind of talked about, hey, if someone needed to spend a time reaching out to a hundred different companies, you don&#8217;t need to go that crazy. Just reach out to like the major hosting companies to start.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But my argument is you need to do more than just say, hey, I work on WordPress, you need to sponsor me. You need to put together a little bit more of a pitch of, hey, I work on X, it accomplishes Y. I see this benefiting your organisation in these specific ways. And if you&#8217;re approaching it that way, that&#8217;s going to catch someone&#8217;s attention much better.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You know, and then just ask also just simple questions. Hey, do you have a formal sponsorship contribution project for WordPress? And if they say no, maybe, hey, would you like me to help you set that up? If they say yes, then it&#8217;s, hey, what&#8217;s the process for getting involved in that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>These are just very simple questions. It&#8217;s just a conversation, right? I say this, I&#8217;ve been in sales for decades now. It&#8217;s second nature to me. I understand that for a lot of people, this isn&#8217;t second nature for them. And that&#8217;s also what I&#8217;m trying to help with in this conversation is, it&#8217;s not just the organisations I&#8217;m trying to educate, but it&#8217;s also the contributors and the people that are in the project. Helping them to understand how to speak business a little bit more, so that they can get the businesses to really understand the benefits of this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:58] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> There was a few things that you said a few moments ago where the implication was basically just get started. So put aside some cash, decide that you&#8217;re going to do it, so this is from the business side, and then just begin and see what happens. I don&#8217;t suppose you&#8217;re going to be able to simulate the perfect system first time around. It&#8217;ll be an iterative process, but just commit to it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But the ROI thing was also kind of interesting because you know, if you are senior management in Kinsta or whichever hosting company you want to imagine, there&#8217;s got to be I suppose some aspect of that in the back of your mind. Okay, we&#8217;re going to give away, I don&#8217;t know, a hundred thousand dollars this year, but we&#8217;re not going to ask anybody at all, at any point to sort of mention our company name. That&#8217;s probably unrealistic, but I like what you said there about the gentle approach to it, the write a blog post about it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But there&#8217;s something to be explored there because there&#8217;s got to be a way of surfacing good work. So it doesn&#8217;t have to necessarily be a big clarion call. Look, I did this because Kinsta paid for it. More tangentially, I did this great work and I did this, and WordPress benefited as a result of this, and I would just like to thank Kinsta for making that possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I guess we&#8217;ve just got to figure out what that piece looks like because, you know, you can&#8217;t give away money for free. There does need to be some ROI, but we have to figure out how gentle that approach is, and how gung ho it can be or not. That&#8217;s going to be interesting to figure out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:22] <strong>Roger Williams:</strong> Just to kind of elaborate on that for a second. So the way I would say to companies to approach looking at this is, this is branding, right? And so when you&#8217;re doing brand marketing, it&#8217;s very nebulous, right? You&#8217;re kind of putting stuff out there and there&#8217;s a little bit of goodwill to it, I guess, you know, the philanthropy part plays into it a little bit. This definitely, I would say, falls under your branding budget. And so you should treat it as such.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I think that there&#8217;s a few different ways that the marketing, and I&#8217;m using air quotes around marketing here, because I understand that for people in open source this can be a little bit of kryptonite, a little bit repellent to talk about it this way. So I&#8217;m trying to be cautious or gentle here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But I think the marketing benefits are, there&#8217;s a ton of indirect benefits, right? So if I&#8217;m sponsoring a contributor, and they&#8217;re working on the project, it means they&#8217;re interacting with other contributors of the project. They&#8217;re going to mention, oh, hey, by the way, Kinsta is sponsoring me, in conversation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And now you&#8217;ve got that one-on-one marketing, as it were, happening where that&#8217;s getting put into the project and that gets noticed. And I think that&#8217;s my big urge to companies who really want to step on the pedal of ROI. Like, hey, we need to really maximise the ROI here. Is it&#8217;s like, hey, the community notices as soon as you do something, good, bad, or indifferent. But as soon as you start sponsoring people, it gets noticed inside of the community right away, whether you immediately see it or not.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So allow that to happen, for sure. I think from like the blog posts and things like that, there&#8217;s two ways I approach it. I love it if a sponsored contributor writes a blog post on their blog and mentions Kinsta. That&#8217;s amazing. I&#8217;m not expecting that. So instead what I&#8217;ll do is I&#8217;ll invite them onto the Kinsta Talks podcast and, hey, let&#8217;s spend 20 minutes and just talk about what you&#8217;re doing on the project.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I mentioned Kinsta at the beginning of it, in the fact that that&#8217;s where I work. Other than that, I don&#8217;t talk about Kinsta at all. It&#8217;s all about this individual and what they&#8217;re doing on the project, what they&#8217;re excited about, how they would suggest people get involved in the project. And so using that as a promotion, and again, the indirect branding benefits. My fingers are crossed, I&#8217;m sure my CMO&#8217;s watching this and going, either he is loving it or he is gritting his teeth. I get the sense everybody&#8217;s very happy. Hey Matt, how are you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The way I am approaching this is very much as an outsider and I&#8217;m trying to be very respectful of the fact that this community&#8217;s been around for a very long time. I am sure this is not the first time that these conversations have happened. I&#8217;m not the first person to bring these things up. I just see it as, I&#8217;m here as a unique person in this point in time and I see a need and I&#8217;m, we&#8217;ve gotten our organisation to help, start helping. And what I&#8217;m trying to promote is getting other organisations to also realise this, and also start promoting and sponsoring and contributing to the project.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:13] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I think one of the things that will be really interesting is if, let&#8217;s say that you become the fulcrum for all of this, and so Roger Williams is known at Kinsta. He&#8217;s the person to go and speak to. Having that clarity is going to be really beneficial. So you don&#8217;t have to go through those email hoops of, okay, you just use the contact form on the website and then get put through nine different people who all say, actually it&#8217;s not me. Knowing who you&#8217;ve got to speak to, and having that clear process, that contact form, whatever that may be, that intake form that we talked about earlier, that&#8217;s really interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m just going to pivot it slightly, and I&#8217;m wondering what the kind of contributions that might fall into scope for you at Kinsta. So obviously the software itself, the core project, WordPress Core would I&#8217;m sure be in view.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But what about other things like, oh, I don&#8217;t know, people who write documentation, you mentioned Polyglots? There&#8217;s obviously people who do event organising. There are people who do content creation, podcasts, YouTube channels, those kind of things. Do you have any constraints around the kind of contribution that you&#8217;d be interested in looking at, or will you listen to anybody?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:16] <strong>Roger Williams:</strong> Excellent question. And before I dive into that, I want to make sure that I&#8217;m not the only person taking credit for this at Kinsta. I have two amazing colleagues on the front lines with me. Marcel Bootsman, as you&#8217;re very familiar with, I think he&#8217;s been on your show before, he handles for Europe. And then Alex Michaelson, who is in APAC region. These are both amazing individuals who, we all three of us are on the front line, talking with contributors, sponsoring them, figuring all of this stuff out. So I definitely don&#8217;t want to take all of the credit here and make it seem that way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>As far as figuring out who to sponsor and who to contribute, this is the big question. The amazing thing is that this point in time, my bosses, our bosses at Kinsta have given us amazing leeway to really choose who we want to be sponsoring, and who we want to be working with.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so there&#8217;s a bit of objective focus for who we&#8217;re sponsoring. Core contributors obviously, like they&#8217;re directly impacting the project by actually changing the code and adding features and fixing bugs. So that&#8217;s obviously very important.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But just as important is these other groups that are making sure that when a new person wants to use WordPress, there&#8217;s documentation that explains how to use the WordPress. When they want to go to a WordCamp and meet somebody, I mean Aaron Jorbin has a great story about meeting someone at one of the first contributor days that he went to. And they then became a core contributor within a short amount of time. And so that contributor day didn&#8217;t just happen, right? Like, people had to make that event happen, and organise it and have coffee and treats and lights and all of the things that go into that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So I think that there&#8217;s a lot of levels here. Whether it&#8217;s directly sponsoring a contributor inside of the open source project. It&#8217;s sponsoring WordCamps, it&#8217;s sponsoring amazing podcasts that help to spread the word and market WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>There&#8217;s people that have brought up that WordPress has kind of a marketing issue because it is this open source project that has just benefited from just a ton of people realising, wow, this is amazing software to build websites with. And they just started doing that, and 40% of the internet runs on WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s happened very, very organically. And I think though that we&#8217;re now at an inflection of the internet and the web where we maybe need to start becoming a little bit more intentional about the marketing and the promotion of WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:44] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> What I&#8217;m gathering from this is that, certainly from Kinsta&#8217;s point of view, you just want to make this whole bi-directional thing just clearer. Kinsta&#8217;s got some intention to sponsor, and we know who the people are, we know the kind of things that they want to sponsor. Maybe there&#8217;s going to be some sort of landing page for that or some intake form. And so hopefully people who have it in mind that they wish to be sponsored, they&#8217;ll be clearer on what kind of things are in scope, what kind of things are out of scope. How many people they need to jump through the hoops to get that sponsorship sorted out. So that kind of thing is really interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What do you think about the idea of, so we haven&#8217;t discussed this, I&#8217;m just going to throw this in there. Do you think this is a company by company thing? So in other words, is Kinsta always going to be siloed in its approach to sponsoring? Or is there any kind of, I don&#8217;t know how this would work, but some kind of more overarching approach that may be required? So let&#8217;s say for example that, I don&#8217;t know, Kinsta do, they sponsor person X, person Y, person Z, as we say in the UK, but obviously that leaves all these other myriad people without sponsorship. Is there a way that you could communicate to other organisations?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Look, this person, they came to us, it was very close, but we didn&#8217;t manage to get them on the sponsorship roster this year. But we feel that they were really credible. Here&#8217;s somebody else that you can go and talk to. Do you know what I mean? Something just a little bit, a bigger umbrella organisation above Kinsta, maybe. Organisation, substitute that word for any kind of structure or governance as you like.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:12] <strong>Roger Williams:</strong> Yeah, there is a lot of stuff already around this. Courtney Robertson has WPCC.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:18] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> WP Community Collective.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:20] <strong>Roger Williams:</strong> Thank you. And so the idea with that group is kind of to create an organisation that handles the mechanism aspect of distributing funds and finding people to sponsor and contribute. I could see a consortium of hosting companies coming together and somehow working on this, but that adds additional complexities, right? You have now more organisations, you have more bodies deciding things and making decisions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And again, going back to what I propose at the very end of the project is, don&#8217;t wait, just get started. My worry about having consortiums and larger organisations is it&#8217;s going to slow the process down, it&#8217;s going to complicate the process.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s mostly just because I have a big phobia of organisations and meetings. This is a personal kind of thing rather than, you know, I&#8217;m sure there&#8217;s ways to figure this out more. I have a job, right? I have to balance all of these things between working on what I need to actually work on inside of the company. Working on sponsoring contributors and focusing on the open source. So there&#8217;s a lot of balancing that goes on. I am open to having these discussions with people and organisations and seeing what can come of it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Again, going back to feeling like an outsider and knowing that there&#8217;s already a ton of people and a ton of organisations involved in doing all of this work. I&#8217;ve reached out to many of them. They&#8217;ve given me great advice. They&#8217;ve really helped me get our program organised the way it is. They help me with my presentation and kind of figuring out what to talk about in here. And so I want to remain mindful that I don&#8217;t have all the answers, I&#8217;m not the only person that&#8217;s doing all of this, and I welcome people to come to me with suggestions and ideas, and I&#8217;m always open to talking.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:41:03] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s one size fits all really, is there? Because the WPCC feels like a really great initiative. It has more of a kind of escrow kind of service feel to it. In other words, Kinsta, you put in your X amount of dollars and then the WPCC will figure out where that might go. But it may be that, you know, you guys at Kinsta would like to have more of a kind of one-to-one relationship with the people that you are sponsoring. And so that&#8217;s fine.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Maybe you will have back channels to the people who do similar work at different companies. And so it will be more kind of laissez-faire than something a little bit more organised. Maybe it&#8217;ll just be more back channel kind of thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But that&#8217;s really interesting. Honestly, the time has got away with us. We&#8217;re at 45 minutes so far, so I think we&#8217;re fast approaching the amount of time that we&#8217;ve got available for us. Is there anything in this that we missed out? Was there any kernel, any little nugget somewhere that we failed to mention, or do you think we&#8217;ve covered the whole thing off?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:41:57] <strong>Roger Williams:</strong> You know, I think the one thing that maybe we skipped through a little bit is how to get your organisation bought into this. We&#8217;ve talked about the reasoning. We&#8217;ve talked about how to sell it from the outside. We&#8217;ve talked about how to deal with the individual contributors. Inside of your organisation there&#8217;s, again, three ways that I approach this. I like the number three, I guess.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So when you&#8217;re making your internal pitch, this is all in the slide deck as well, understanding your organisational goals. So understand like, hey, we&#8217;re a hosting company, what&#8217;s important for a hosting company? Well, performance and security are pretty top things. So maybe that&#8217;s where you want to focus.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Again, also we have a ton of customers that are non-English speaking, so Polyglots makes a lot of sense. Understand the organisational goals so that when you go to your executives, you go to your leadership, whoever&#8217;s got the money, you&#8217;re framing this out in terms of how it benefits your organisation.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The second one is being patient, but being ready. So I started this conversation, I want to say late 2023, inside of Kinsta. And then about a year later, suddenly, out of the blue, hey, here&#8217;s your budget, go get to work. And so I needed to be ready. So we all needed to be ready. And we were. The good news is Marcel and Alex and myself, were already out in the community talking with people. We already were having some conversations about, ooh, who would we like to sponsor, who could use the sponsorship?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so as soon as the budget was given to us, we were ready to go. And the reason that I recommend being ready is, these can be fleeting, right? Just because the executive has approved it this month doesn&#8217;t mean it&#8217;s necessarily going to be there the next month.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:43:37] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> And also the contributor might not be, you know, I&#8217;ve got two weeks now, I can do something right away.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:43:42] <strong>Roger Williams:</strong> Yeah, so be ready because they&#8217;re going to want to see results. And the results should be, the way you framed it, the results should just be, hey, we&#8217;re sponsoring contributor X, they&#8217;re doing Y and Z, oh, and I had them on a Kinsta Talk, and here&#8217;s actual proof of we&#8217;re doing stuff. So have all of that ready to go. Have a spreadsheet that tracks everything so you can track where the money&#8217;s going and it&#8217;s all clear.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Understand how your organisation wants to handle these things, right? Is it going to be as simple as, hey, here&#8217;s a credit card and here&#8217;s a GitHub sponsorship page? Is that going to be okay? Or does it need to be a little bit more, I say complicated, involved, right? Do you need to have a non disparaging contract, right? So that it&#8217;s understood, hey, we&#8217;re sponsoring you, it&#8217;d be best if you didn&#8217;t say bad things about us, please. Get that cleared, like figure that stuff out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then be ready for common objections, right? So they&#8217;re going to immediately come to you with, hey, why would we spend money on this? It&#8217;s something that we get for free. And be ready with that strategic and the operational and the second order benefits conversations. And know which of those is going to land with which manager, executive best. So getting that internal pitch ready and really creating the project so it&#8217;s ready for success from day one is really important.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:45:03] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, that&#8217;s really interesting because a lot of it, most of what we talked about in this conversation didn&#8217;t really dwell on that. It was more about the nuts and the bolts of trying to connect the two different sides. But you&#8217;ve obviously laid out the groundwork inside Kinsta to have this ready. And then the minute that the CEO or the CMO or whoever it is, says, right, Roger, here&#8217;s some money, you&#8217;re off, you&#8217;re ready to actually go and start seeking this stuff out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I very much doubt that this conversation is going to have a perfect outcome. I don&#8217;t suppose there is a perfect system, but I appreciate the fact that you&#8217;re giving it a lot of thought over there, and you&#8217;re trying to figure out how to make these two sides collide in a way that is mutually beneficial. Because it certainly seems that with WordPress at 40% of the web, the money question is not going away, the philanthropic side of things is not going away, and we do have to have ways for these two sides to communicate successfully with each other.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So, okay, I will put links to anything that we have mentioned in the show notes. So if you go to wptavern.com, search for the episode with Roger Williams, you&#8217;ll be able to find everything there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Just one last thing, Roger. Where can we find you apart from kinsta.com? Is there a place where you hang out online if somebody wants to pick this conversation up and run with it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:46:11] <strong>Roger Williams:</strong> Yeah, absolutely. I am a big user of LinkedIn. I post there pretty regularly. If you interact with me in the comments, I will love you forever, you&#8217;re my best friend. I love it when people ask me questions, or challenge me in the comments like, let&#8217;s have conversations there. Feel free to reach out to me and let&#8217;s talk, I wanna figure this stuff out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:46:30] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Roger Williams, thank you so much for chatting to me today. I really appreciate it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:46:34] <strong>Roger Williams:</strong> Thank you very much, Nathan. I appreciate everything that you do for the community and thank you for the time and letting me be on.</p>\n</div></details>\n\n\n\n<p>On the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/rogerwilliamsmedia/\">Roger Williams</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger Williams leads community and partner engagement at Kinsta, a company specialising in offering managed hosting for WordPress. His role involves bridging the gap between Kinsta and the wider WordPress community, working closely with agency partners, technology collaborators, and open source initiatives. Throughout his career, Roger has been deeply involved in community efforts and has recently played a key part in Kinsta’s implementation of a sponsored contributions program, helping to funnel time and resources back into WordPress and other open source projects.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Many long-standing members of the WordPress community have contributed out of passion and a spirit of philanthropy, but as the project has grown to power over 40% of the web, the need for sustainable funding and sponsorship has become more pronounced. Roger joins us today to explore this shift, he shares insights from his WordCamp US presentation titled ‘Figuring Out Sponsored Contribution’, discussing how companies can start funding contributors, why that matters, and how to balance the business need for a return on investment with the grassroots spirit of open source.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We begin with Roger’s background, his work at Kinsta, and how he became involved in WordPress community sponsorship. The conversation then gets into the ever evolving dynamics of sponsored contributions: how businesses can approach funding contributors, ways to surface and support valuable work, and strategies for aligning company goals with broader project needs.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger breaks down the practical arguments companies can use to get internal buy-in, and the importance of clear processes, for both organisations looking to sponsor, and individuals seeking support.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Towards the end, Roger reflects on the challenges and opportunities of connecting those from both the philanthropic and commercial sides of WordPress, and he shares advice for anyone hoping to get their organisation involved in similar programs.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you’re interested in how WordPress sponsorships work, how business and community might collaborate, or you’re seeking practical advice as a contributor or company, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://kinsta.com\">Kinsta</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2025/session/figuring-out-sponsored-contribution/\">Figuring Out Sponsored Contribution</a> &#8211; Roger&#8217;s presentation at WordCamp US 2025</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/handbook/about/\">Polyglots team</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/docs/\">WordPress Documentation</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhYfuAN3YCfxLV7E6_q_8lClVU-TPyRBS\">Kinsta Talks Podcast</a> on YouTube</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.thewpcommunitycollective.com\">WPCC</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p>Roger on <a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/rogerwilliamsmedia/\">LinkedIn</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 12 Nov 2025 15:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:36;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:88:\"Open Channels FM: Building a Culture of Openness and Growth Around Accessibility in Tech\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"https://openchannels.fm/?p=112121\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:95:\"https://openchannels.fm/building-a-culture-of-openness-and-growth-around-accessibility-in-tech/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:252:\"In this episode, Anne Bovelett discusses web accessibility with Marc Haunschild, emphasizing its benefits and challenges. They provide practical advice for developers, advocate for diverse teams, and promote small, iterative changes toward inclusivity.\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 12 Nov 2025 10:09:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:37;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:26:\"Matt: Buffett Thanksgiving\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=150541\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:43:\"https://ma.tt/2025/11/buffett-thanksgiving/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:849:\"<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p>Choose your heroes very carefully and then emulate them. You will never be perfect, but you can always be better.</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m an unabashed fan of Warren Buffett and the late Charlie Munger, <a href=\"https://www.berkshirenerds.store/\">I even have bronze busts of them in my office</a>! I was very lucky to <a href=\"https://ma.tt/2025/05/berkshire/\">attend his last shareholder meeting</a>, as part of stepping down he&#8217;ll no longer write their <a href=\"https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/letters.html\">legendary shareholder updates</a>, but he will keep doing his Thanksgiving letters.</p>\n\n\n\n<p> <a href=\"https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/news/nov1025.pdf\">You should give it a read</a>. It&#8217;s heartbreaking and beautiful.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 12 Nov 2025 07:33:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:38;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"WordPress.org blog: WordPress 6.9 Release Candidate 1\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://wordpress.org/news/?p=19317\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:69:\"https://wordpress.org/news/2025/11/wordpress-6-9-release-candidate-1/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:9329:\"<p>The first Release Candidate (“RC1”) for WordPress 6.9 is ready for download and testing!</p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>This version of the WordPress software is still under development</strong>. Please do not install, run, or test this version of WordPress on production or mission-critical websites. Instead, it’s recommended to evaluate RC1 on a test server and site.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.9 RC1 can be tested using any of the following methods:</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-table\"><table class=\"has-fixed-layout\"><tbody><tr><td><strong>Plugin</strong></td><td>Install and activate the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-beta-tester/\">WordPress Beta Tester</a> plugin on a WordPress install. (Select the “Bleeding edge” channel and “Beta/RC Only” stream.)</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Direct Download</strong></td><td>Download the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/wordpress-6.9-RC1.zip\">RC1 version (zip)</a> and install it on a WordPress website.</td></tr><tr><td><strong>Command Line</strong></td><td>Use this <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/cli/\">WP-CLI</a> command: <br /><code>wp core update --version=6.9-RC1</code></td></tr><tr><td><strong>WordPress Playground</strong></td><td>Use the <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/?php=8.3&amp;wp=beta&amp;networking=no&amp;language=&amp;multisite=no&amp;random=y4q1rn88xn\">6.9 RC1 WordPress Playground instance</a> to test the software directly in your browser. No setup is required &#8211; just click and go! </td></tr></tbody></table></figure>\n\n\n\n<p>The scheduled final release date for WordPress 6.9 is <strong>December 2, 2025</strong>. The full <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/6-9/\">release schedule can be found here</a>. Your help testing Beta and RC versions is vital to making this release as stable and powerful as possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Please continue checking the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/\">Make WordPress Core blog</a> for <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/6-9/\">6.9-related posts</a> in the coming weeks for more information.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s in WordPress 6.9 RC1?</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>Check out the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/10/21/wordpress-6-9-beta-1/\">Beta 1 announcement</a> for details on WordPress 6.9.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can browse the technical details for all issues addressed since Beta 4 using these links:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/commits/wp/6.9?since=2025-11-07&amp;until=2025-11-11\">Gutenberg commits for 6.9</a> since November 7, 2025</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/log/?revs=61183-61203\">Core commits for 6.9</a> since November 7, 2025</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=closed&amp;changetime=11%2F07%2F2025..11%2F11%2F2025&amp;milestone=6.9&amp;group=component&amp;col=id&amp;col=summary&amp;col=milestone&amp;col=changetime&amp;col=type&amp;order=id\">Closed Trac tickets</a> since November 7, 2025</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>Want to know more about this release? Here are some highlights:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Site Editor improvements and Refined content creation\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Ability to hide blocks</li>\n\n\n\n<li>New blocks </li>\n\n\n\n<li>Notes on blocks</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Universal command palette in wp-admin</li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Developer updates\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Updates to dataviews and dataforms components</li>\n\n\n\n<li>New abilities API</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Updates to interactivity API </li>\n\n\n\n<li>Updates to block binding API</li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Performance Improvements\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Improved script and style handling</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Optimized queries and caching</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Added ability to handle “fetchpriority” in ES Modules and Import Maps</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Standardizing output buffering</li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>The final release is on track for December 2nd. As always, a successful release depends on your confirmation during testing. So please download and test!</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">How you can contribute</h2>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress is open source software made possible by a passionate community of people collaborating on and contributing to its development. The resources below outline various ways you can help the world’s most popular open source web platform, regardless of your technical expertise.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Get involved in testing</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Testing for issues is crucial to the development of any software. It’s also a meaningful way for anyone to contribute. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Your help testing the WordPress 6.9 RC1 version is key to ensuring that the final release is the best it can be. While testing the upgrade process is essential, trying out new features is equally important. This <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2025/10/21/help-test-wordpress-6-9/\">detailed guide</a> will walk you through testing features in WordPress 6.9.</p>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Calls for testing</h4>\n\n\n\n<p>Thank you to everyone who helps test the following enhancements and bug fixes:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2025/10/06/call-for-testing-accordion-block/\">Accordion Block</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/2025/10/04/call-for-testing-ability-to-hide-blocks/\">Ability to Hide Blocks</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/64099\">Classic themes loading block styles on demand</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/64204\">Modified notes notifications</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/11/10/abilities-api-in-wordpress-6-9/\">Abilities API</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p>If you encounter an issue, please report it to the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/forum/alphabeta/\">Alpha/Beta area</a> of the support forums, or directly to <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/newticket\">WordPress Trac</a> if you are comfortable writing a reproducible bug report. You can also check your issue against a list of <a href=\"https://core.trac.wordpress.org/tickets/major\">known bugs</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Thank you to everyone who helps with testing!</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Update your theme or plugin</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>For plugin and theme authors, your products play an integral role in extending the functionality and value of WordPress for all users.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Thanks for continuing to test your themes and plugins with the WordPress 6.9 beta releases. With RC1, you’ll want to conclude your testing and update the <em>“Tested up to”</em> version in your <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/plugins/wordpress-org/how-your-readme-txt-works/\">plugin’s readme file</a> to 6.9. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you find compatibility issues, please post detailed information to the <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/support/forum/alphabeta/\">support forum</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Test on your hosting platforms</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Web hosts provide vital infrastructure for supporting WordPress and its users. Testing on hosting systems helps inform the development process while ensuring that WordPress and hosting platforms are fully compatible, free of errors, optimized for the best possible user experience, and that updates roll out to customer sites without issue.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Want to test WordPress on your hosting system? <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/hosting/test-results-getting-started/\">Get started with configuring distributed hosting tests here</a>. Thank you to all <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/hosting/test-results/\">web hosts who help test WordPress</a>!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Curious about testing releases in general? Follow along with the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/test/\">testing initiatives in Make Core</a> and join the <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/messages/core-test/\">#core-test channel</a> on <a href=\"https://wordpress.slack.com/\">Making WordPress Slack</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">An RC1 haiku</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><em>As the sun rises</em>,</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>RC1 breaks its cocoon</em></p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>and emerges strong</em>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-right\"><em>Props to </em><a class=\"mention\" href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/akshayar/\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>akshayar</a><em>, </em><a class=\"mention\" href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/davidbaumwald/\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>davidbaumwald</a>, <a class=\"mention\" href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/jeffpaul/\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>jeffpaul</a>, <a class=\"mention\" href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/desrosj/\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>desrosj</a>, <a class=\"mention\" href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/westonruter/\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>westonruter</a>, <a class=\"mention\" href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ellatrix/\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>ellatrix</a>, <a class=\"mention\" href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/priethor/\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>priethor</a>, <a class=\"mention\" href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/krupajnanda/\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>krupajnanda</a> <em>and</em> <a class=\"mention\" href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/cbravobernal/\"><span class=\"mentions-prefix\">@</span>cbravobernal</a> <em>for proofreading and review.</em></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 11 Nov 2025 15:34:48 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:10:\"Amy Kamala\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:39;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:68:\"Open Channels FM: Insights Into Successfully Rebranding Your Podcast\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"https://openchannels.fm/?p=111842\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:75:\"https://openchannels.fm/insights-into-successfully-rebranding-your-podcast/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:346:\"Rebranding a podcast involves much more than updating a logo or picking a new name. It is a transformative process that requires thoughtful planning, flexibility, and perseverance. One of the most revealing parts of the journey is the way it encourages you to reevaluate how each piece fits together, from your website structure to your [&#8230;]\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 11 Nov 2025 11:43:05 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:5:\"BobWP\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:40;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:20:\"Matt: Bending Spoons\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=150536\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:37:\"https://ma.tt/2025/11/bending-spoons/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:1275:\"<p>The story of what <a href=\"https://bendingspoons.com/\">Bending Spoons</a> has built is very impressive, and I&#8217;m a customer of theirs through <a href=\"https://evernote.com/\">Evernote</a>, WordPress uses <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/\">Meetup</a> a ton. I think Automattic&#8217;s <a href=\"https://automattic.space/\">Noho office</a> used to belong to Meetup. They&#8217;ve built an incredible engineering and product culture that can terraform technology stacks into something much more efficient. I think their acquisitions of <a href=\"https://techcrunch.com/2025/09/10/vimeo-to-be-acquired-by-bending-spoons-in-1-38b-all-cash-deal/\">Vimeo</a> and <a href=\"https://techcrunch.com/2025/10/29/bending-spoons-to-acquire-aol/\">AOL</a> are brilliant. This interview with Luca Ferrari on Invest Like The Best goes into their story and unique culture. I also always love a good <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Matrix\">Matrix</a> reference. <img alt=\"🙂\" class=\"wp-smiley\" src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/17.0.2/72x72/1f642.png\" style=\"height: 1em;\" /></p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed alignwide is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div></figure>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Tue, 11 Nov 2025 01:34:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:41;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:114:\"WordCamp Central: WordPress Udupi Community Empowers 300+ Students Across Coastal Karnataka Through Campus Connect\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:40:\"https://central.wordcamp.org/?p=12520949\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:138:\"https://central.wordcamp.org/news/2025/11/wordpress-udupi-community-empowers-300-students-across-coastal-karnataka-through-campus-connect/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:19930:\"<p>As the lead organiser representing the <strong>WordPress Udupi Community</strong>, I had the incredible opportunity to bring <em>WordPress Campus Connect</em> to college campuses across <strong>Coastal Karnataka</strong>.<br />What began as a small idea soon became a mission &#8211; to introduce WordPress, open source, and digital opportunities to the next generation of creators.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Across all our sessions, we interacted with <strong>over 300+ students</strong> from four institutions:</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://events.wordpress.org/campusconnect/2025/udupi/partner-colleges/shree-guru-sudhindra-college-bhatkal/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">S.G.S. College, Bhatkal</a></strong> – 50 students</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://events.wordpress.org/campusconnect/2025/udupi/partner-colleges/bhandarkars-arts-and-science-college-kundapura/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Bhandarkar’s College, Kundapura</a></strong> – 120 students</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://events.wordpress.org/campusconnect/2025/udupi/partner-colleges/dr-b-b-hegde-first-grade-college-kundapura/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Dr. B. B. Hegde College, Kundapura</a></strong> – 65 students</li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong><a href=\"https://events.wordpress.org/campusconnect/2025/udupi/imj-institute-of-science-commerce-moodlakatte/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">IMJ Institute of Science &amp; Commerce, Moodlakatte</a></strong> – 70 students</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img alt=\"\" src=\"https://events.wordpress.org/campusconnect/2025/udupi/files/2025/10/wordpress-campus-connect-udupi-sgs-college-bhatkal-scaled.jpg\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img alt=\"\" src=\"https://events.wordpress.org/campusconnect/2025/udupi/files/2025/10/wordpress-campus-connect-udupi-bhandarkars-college-kundapura-min-edited-scaled.jpg\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img alt=\"\" src=\"https://events.wordpress.org/campusconnect/2025/udupi/files/2025/10/wordpress-campus-connect-IMJ-Institute-of-Science-1.jpeg\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<p>Each campus had its own energy and challenges. Most students were in their final year, just months away from entering the professional world, yet many still lacked basic digital readiness. Some didn’t have LinkedIn profiles but had multiple Instagram accounts. Others were hesitant to speak on the mic, and a few genuinely didn’t know what to enter in the <em>PIN code</em> field while creating a WordPress.com account. Out of 300+ students, more than 250 had forgotten their Gmail passwords, so each session began with a mini Gmail recovery workshop before we even reached WordPress!</p>\n\n\n\n<p>At first, it was challenging. But soon our team switched gears, we weren’t just there as WordPress community members; we became mentors. We realised this wasn’t only about teaching WordPress; it was about building <strong>digital literacy</strong>. If not us, then who would help them take their first confident step into the web world?</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-9d6595d7 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img alt=\"\" src=\"https://events.wordpress.org/campusconnect/2025/udupi/files/2025/09/wordpress-campus-connect-udupi-4-scaled.jpg\" /></figure>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img alt=\"\" src=\"https://events.wordpress.org/campusconnect/2025/udupi/files/2025/09/wordpress-campus-connect-udupi-1-1.jpg\" /></figure>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-9d6595d7 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img alt=\"\" src=\"https://events.wordpress.org/campusconnect/2025/udupi/files/2025/09/wordpress-campus-connect-udupi-team-members-scaled.jpg\" /></figure>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img alt=\"\" src=\"https://events.wordpress.org/campusconnect/2025/udupi/files/2025/10/wordpress-campus-connect-udupi-bb-hegde-college-kundapura-4.jpeg\" /></figure>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<p>By the end, we witnessed real transformation, shy students asking questions, first-time creators proudly launching their sites, and a spark of curiosity lighting up across classrooms.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We’re grateful to all the colleges, their management, and faculty for the warm welcome, and to every student who showed curiosity and enthusiasm once they got started.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Organising Team</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Organisers:</strong> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/arbishashishetty\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Shashikanth Shetty</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/kkeerthiprabhu/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Keerthi Prabhu</a> &amp; <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/vgnavada\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">V Gautham Navada</a><br /><strong>Facilitators:</strong> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/omkarudupa\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Omkar Udupa</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/manjunathmm\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Manjunath M M</a>, <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/chandanagm/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Chandana G M</a><br /><strong>Social Media Designs &amp; Reels:</strong> <a href=\"https://profiles.wordpress.org/ranjithacgowda/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Ranjitha GC</a></p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img alt=\"\" src=\"https://events.wordpress.org/campusconnect/2025/udupi/files/2025/10/wordpress-campus-connect-wordpress-udupi-community-team-members-scaled.jpg\" /><figcaption class=\"wp-element-caption\">The WP UDUPI TEAM &#8211; From left to right &#8211; Omkar, Shashikanth, Manjunath, Gautham, Keerthi, and Chandana.</figcaption></figure>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Sponsors</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Global Sponsors:</strong> <a href=\"https://automattic.com\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Automattic</a>, <a href=\"https://bluehost.com\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Bluehost</a>, <a href=\"https://hosting.com\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Hosting.com</a>, <a href=\"https://kinsta.com/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Kinsta</a>, <a href=\"https://WooCommerce.com/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">WooCommerce</a><br /><strong>Local Sponsors:</strong> <a href=\"https://sabweb.in/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">SabWeb</a>, <a href=\"https://forthfocus.com/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">ForthFocus</a>, <a href=\"https://yukthadigital.com/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Yuktha Digital</a>, <a href=\"https://kotisoftsolutions.com\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">Koti Soft Solutions</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p>A heartfelt thanks to <a href=\"https://wordpress.com/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">WordPress.com</a> for sponsoring free one-year website plans for students from our last two campuses, an initiative that has already helped many of them start blogging and showcasing their work online.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Student Testimonials</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-9d6595d7 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-instagram wp-block-embed-instagram\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"instagram-media\"><div style=\"padding: 16px;\"> <a href=\"https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPoBui1k4ba/?utm_source=ig_embed&amp;utm_campaign=loading\" style=\"line-height: 0; padding: 0 0; text-align: center; text-decoration: none; width: 100%;\" target=\"_blank\"> <div style=\"display: flex;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; height: 40px; margin-right: 14px; width: 40px;\"></div> <div style=\"display: flex;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; margin-bottom: 6px; width: 100px;\"></div> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; width: 60px;\"></div></div></div><div style=\"padding: 19% 0;\"></div> <div style=\"display: block; height: 50px; margin: 0 auto 12px; width: 50px;\"></div><div style=\"padding-top: 8px;\"> <div style=\"color: #3897f0; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: 550; line-height: 18px;\">View this post on Instagram</div></div><div style=\"padding: 12.5% 0;\"></div> <div style=\"display: flex; margin-bottom: 14px;\"><div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div></div><div style=\"margin-left: 8px;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; height: 20px; width: 20px;\"></div> <div></div></div><div style=\"margin-left: auto;\"> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div></div></div> <div style=\"display: flex; margin-bottom: 24px;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; margin-bottom: 6px; width: 224px;\"></div> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; width: 144px;\"></div></div></a></div></blockquote>\n</div></figure>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-instagram wp-block-embed-instagram\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"instagram-media\"><div style=\"padding: 16px;\"> <a href=\"https://www.instagram.com/reel/DPDnPevk_Ib/?utm_source=ig_embed&amp;utm_campaign=loading\" style=\"line-height: 0; padding: 0 0; text-align: center; text-decoration: none; width: 100%;\" target=\"_blank\"> <div style=\"display: flex;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; height: 40px; margin-right: 14px; width: 40px;\"></div> <div style=\"display: flex;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; margin-bottom: 6px; width: 100px;\"></div> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; width: 60px;\"></div></div></div><div style=\"padding: 19% 0;\"></div> <div style=\"display: block; height: 50px; margin: 0 auto 12px; width: 50px;\"></div><div style=\"padding-top: 8px;\"> <div style=\"color: #3897f0; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: 550; line-height: 18px;\">View this post on Instagram</div></div><div style=\"padding: 12.5% 0;\"></div> <div style=\"display: flex; margin-bottom: 14px;\"><div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div></div><div style=\"margin-left: 8px;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; height: 20px; width: 20px;\"></div> <div></div></div><div style=\"margin-left: auto;\"> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div></div></div> <div style=\"display: flex; margin-bottom: 24px;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; margin-bottom: 6px; width: 224px;\"></div> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; width: 144px;\"></div></div></a></div></blockquote>\n</div></figure>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>College Testimonial</strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-instagram wp-block-embed-instagram\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"instagram-media\"><div style=\"padding: 16px;\"> <a href=\"https://www.instagram.com/reel/DO8p57yk4cm/?utm_source=ig_embed&amp;utm_campaign=loading\" style=\"line-height: 0; padding: 0 0; text-align: center; text-decoration: none; width: 100%;\" target=\"_blank\"> <div style=\"display: flex;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; height: 40px; margin-right: 14px; width: 40px;\"></div> <div style=\"display: flex;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; margin-bottom: 6px; width: 100px;\"></div> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; width: 60px;\"></div></div></div><div style=\"padding: 19% 0;\"></div> <div style=\"display: block; height: 50px; margin: 0 auto 12px; width: 50px;\"></div><div style=\"padding-top: 8px;\"> <div style=\"color: #3897f0; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: 550; line-height: 18px;\">View this post on Instagram</div></div><div style=\"padding: 12.5% 0;\"></div> <div style=\"display: flex; margin-bottom: 14px;\"><div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div></div><div style=\"margin-left: 8px;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; height: 20px; width: 20px;\"></div> <div></div></div><div style=\"margin-left: auto;\"> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div></div></div> <div style=\"display: flex; margin-bottom: 24px;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; margin-bottom: 6px; width: 224px;\"></div> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; width: 144px;\"></div></div></a></div></blockquote>\n</div></figure>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Media Coverage </strong></h3>\n\n\n\n<p>We were also featured in several local and regional media outlets that recognized the impact of the initiative. You can read the articles and see coverage highlights below:<br /></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><strong>UdupiTimes:</strong> <a href=\"https://udupitimes.com/udupi-times-21221/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">ವರ್ಡ್‌ಪ್ರೆಸ್ ಕ್ಯಾಂಪಸ್ ಕನೆಕ್ಟ್ ಉಡುಪಿ: ವಿದ್ಯಾರ್ಥಿಗಳಿಗೆ ಡಿಜಿಟಲ್ ಪ್ರೇರಣೆ</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Kundapraa.com:</strong> <em><a href=\"https://kundapraa.com/?p=91248\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">ಕುಂದಾಪುರ: ವರ್ಡ್‌ಪ್ರೆಸ್ ಕ್ಯಾಂಪಸ್ ಕನೆಕ್ಟ್: 120 ವಿದ್ಯಾರ್ಥಿಗಳಿಗೆ ಪ್ರಾಯೋಗಿಕ ತರಬೇತಿ</a></em></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>NewsNext</strong>: <em><strong><a href=\"https://newsnext.live/technology/wordpress-campus-connect-udupi-empowers-65-students-at-dr-b-b-hegde-college-kundapura/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">WordPress Campus Connect Udupi Empowers 65 Students at Dr. B.B. Hegde College, Kundapura</a></strong></em></li>\n\n\n\n<li><strong>Tulunada Dhwani: </strong><em><a href=\"https://tulunadadhwani.com/news/wordpress-4/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">ಮೂಡ್ಲಕಟ್ಟೆದ ಐಎಂಜೆ ಕಾಲೇಜಿಡ್ ವರ್ಡ್ ಪ್ರೆಸ್ ಕ್ಯಾಂಪ್..</a></em></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-columns is-layout-flex wp-container-core-columns-is-layout-9d6595d7 wp-block-columns-is-layout-flex\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-instagram wp-block-embed-instagram\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"instagram-media\"><div style=\"padding: 16px;\"> <a href=\"https://www.instagram.com/p/DPie-qQkwBF/?utm_source=ig_embed&amp;utm_campaign=loading\" style=\"line-height: 0; padding: 0 0; text-align: center; text-decoration: none; width: 100%;\" target=\"_blank\"> <div style=\"display: flex;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; height: 40px; margin-right: 14px; width: 40px;\"></div> <div style=\"display: flex;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; margin-bottom: 6px; width: 100px;\"></div> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; width: 60px;\"></div></div></div><div style=\"padding: 19% 0;\"></div> <div style=\"display: block; height: 50px; margin: 0 auto 12px; width: 50px;\"></div><div style=\"padding-top: 8px;\"> <div style=\"color: #3897f0; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: 550; line-height: 18px;\">View this post on Instagram</div></div><div style=\"padding: 12.5% 0;\"></div> <div style=\"display: flex; margin-bottom: 14px;\"><div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div></div><div style=\"margin-left: 8px;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; height: 20px; width: 20px;\"></div> <div></div></div><div style=\"margin-left: auto;\"> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div></div></div> <div style=\"display: flex; margin-bottom: 24px;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; margin-bottom: 6px; width: 224px;\"></div> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; width: 144px;\"></div></div></a></div></blockquote>\n</div></figure>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-column is-layout-flow wp-block-column-is-layout-flow\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-instagram wp-block-embed-instagram\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<blockquote class=\"instagram-media\"><div style=\"padding: 16px;\"> <a href=\"https://www.instagram.com/p/DQbnp7mk8Mt/?utm_source=ig_embed&amp;utm_campaign=loading\" style=\"line-height: 0; padding: 0 0; text-align: center; text-decoration: none; width: 100%;\" target=\"_blank\"> <div style=\"display: flex;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; height: 40px; margin-right: 14px; width: 40px;\"></div> <div style=\"display: flex;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; margin-bottom: 6px; width: 100px;\"></div> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; width: 60px;\"></div></div></div><div style=\"padding: 19% 0;\"></div> <div style=\"display: block; height: 50px; margin: 0 auto 12px; width: 50px;\"></div><div style=\"padding-top: 8px;\"> <div style=\"color: #3897f0; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-weight: 550; line-height: 18px;\">View this post on Instagram</div></div><div style=\"padding: 12.5% 0;\"></div> <div style=\"display: flex; margin-bottom: 14px;\"><div> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div></div><div style=\"margin-left: 8px;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 50%; height: 20px; width: 20px;\"></div> <div></div></div><div style=\"margin-left: auto;\"> <div></div> <div></div> <div></div></div></div> <div style=\"display: flex; margin-bottom: 24px;\"> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; margin-bottom: 6px; width: 224px;\"></div> <div style=\"background-color: #F4F4F4; border-radius: 4px; height: 14px; width: 144px;\"></div></div></a></div></blockquote>\n</div></figure>\n</div>\n</div>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<p>For the <strong>WordPress Udupi Community</strong>, this journey was much more than a series of campus sessions. It was a reminder that true change starts with awareness and sometimes, the first step toward digital empowerment is simply helping someone log in.</p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p><strong>To any student or job seeker reading this:</strong><br />Don’t wait for the syllabus to teach you what the world already expects you to know. Curiosity is your real qualification!</p>\n</blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p><em>WordPress Campus Connect Udupi 2025 </em>turned out to be more than an event, it became a movement, proving that communities like ours can make a real-world impact, one campus at a time.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 10 Nov 2025 13:19:09 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:8:\"vgnavada\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:42;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:16:\"Matt: Meshtastic\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=150524\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:33:\"https://ma.tt/2025/11/meshtastic/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:942:\"<p>I&#8217;ve been following this cool open source project called <a href=\"https://meshtastic.org/\">Meshtastic</a>, which is &#8220;An open source, off-grid, decentralized, mesh network built to run on affordable, low-power devices.&#8221; I finally got some time to set it up tonight. It was super easy; <a href=\"https://flasher.meshtastic.org/\">you just flash the Meshtastic firmware in your browser</a> to any of the compatible devices. I got a Heltec v3 device for $35 bucks on Amazon. (I&#8217;d link but it&#8217;s out of stock, and I think there&#8217;s a newer version.) Apparently, there are enough people running nodes that you can bounce a message from Portland to San Francisco! I love the idea of parallel to the internet networks, and I&#8217;ve been meaning to <a href=\"https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-divisions/mobility-division/amateur-radio-service\">get a HAM license</a>, but in the meantime, this looks pretty fun.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Mon, 10 Nov 2025 01:37:44 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:43;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:78:\"Gutenberg Times: Gutenberg Changelog #124 – Gutenberg 22.0 and WordPress 6.9\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:53:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?post_type=podcast&p=42753\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:86:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-124-gutenberg-22-wordpress-6-9/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:52553:\"<p>In episode 124 of the Gutenberg Changelog podcast, Birgit Pauli-Haack and guest Ellen Bauer discuss the latest WordPress and Gutenberg updates, including the upcoming WordPress 6.9 release and Gutenberg 22.0. Highlights include insights on AI-powered site building, the importance of collaboration tools like block comments, new blocks such as accordion and stretchy text, and the enhanced plugin security review. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Ellen Bauer shares her experiences from WordCamp Kansai and speaks on the impact of AI in making WordPress site building more accessible. They also touch on improvements for theme authors, plugin developers, and the upcoming WordCamp Asia. The episode wraps up with community announcements and a look ahead to features planned for WordPress 7.0.</p>\n\n\n\n<p></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-124-gutenberg-22-wordpress-6-9/#shownotes\">Show Notes</a> / <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-124-gutenberg-22-wordpress-6-9//#transcript\">Transcript</a></p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Editor: <a href=\"https://www.linkedin.com/in/sandy-reed/\">Sandy Reed</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Logo: <a href=\"https://markuraine.com/\">Mark Uraine</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Production: <a href=\"https://icodeforapurpose.com\">Birgit Pauli-Haack</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-larger-font-size\" id=\"shownotes\"><strong>Show Notes</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Special Guest: Ellen Bauer</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://x.com/ellenbauer\">On X (former Twitter) @ellenbauer</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://bsky.app/profile/ellenbauer.bsky.social\">Bluesky</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://www.elmastudio.de/en/\">ElmaStudio</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Previews appearances on the show\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-117-woocommerce-starter-theme-and-blocks/\">Gutenberg Changelog 117 – WooCommerce Starter Theme and Blocks, WordCamp Europe, and Gutenberg 20.7 and 20.8</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-105-gutenberg-18-9-block-themes-and-woocommerce/\">Gutenberg Changelog #105 – Gutenberg 18.9, Block Themes and WooCommerce</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-88-wordpress-6-4-and-gutenberg-16-5/\">Gutenberg Changelog #88 – WordPress 6.4 and Gutenberg 16.4 and 16.5.</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Talk at WordCamp Kansai: <a href=\"https://kansai.wordcamp.org/2025/session/building-a-woocommerce-store-using-block-themes-and-ai-site-building/\">Building a WooCommerce Store Using Block Themes and AI Site Building</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Announcements &amp; Community</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/11/06/update-on-phase-3-2025/\">Update on Phase 3: Collaboration efforts (Nov 2025)</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2025/10/29/plugin-check-plugin-now-creates-automatic-security-reports-update/\">The Plugin Check Plugin now creates automatic security reports after each plugin update</a>. </li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/internet-archive-wayback-machine-link-fixer/\">Internet Archive Wayback Machine Link Fixer</a> </li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://ma.tt/2025/10/wayback/\">Wayback Machine Joint</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.com/blog/2025/10/08/introducing-blueprints-in-wordpress-studio-1-6-0/\">Introducing Blueprints in WordPress Studio 1.6.0</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Talks about Playground Blueprings by Birgit Pauli-Haack\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2025/09/30/streamlined-block-theme-development-using-wordpress-playground-and-github-for-no-code-version-contr/\">Streamlined Block Theme Development: Using WordPress Playground and GitHub for No-Code Version Control of Site Editor Changes</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2025/06/07/from-zero-to-demo-mastering-wordpress-playground-blueprints/\">From Zero to Demo: Mastering WordPress Playground Blueprints</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2025/04/30/create-a-demo-with-playground/\">Create a demo with Playground</a><br /></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What&#8217;s Released</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/11/07/wordpress-6-9-beta-4/\">WordPress 6.9 Beta 4</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Tutorials on WordPress Developer Blog\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/11/how-wordpress-6-9-gives-forms-a-theme-json-makeover/\">How WordPress 6.9 gives forms a theme.json makeover</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/10/styling-accordions-in-wordpress-6-9/\">Styling accordions in WordPress 6.9</a> </li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/09/border-radius-size-presets-in-wordpress-6-9/\">Border radius size presets in WordPress 6.9</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/08/registering-custom-social-icons-in-wordpress-6-9/\">Registering custom social icons in WordPress 6.9</a></li>\n</ul>\n</li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/11/05/whats-new-in-gutenberg-22-0-05-november/\">What’s new in Gutenberg 22.0? (5 November)</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What&#8217;s in the works or discussed?</h2>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/72032\">WordPress Scripts: A vision for a v2 version</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Developer Hours: <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/311854653/\"><strong>WordPress 6.9: developer updates</strong></a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-large-font-size\">Stay in Touch</p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\">\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Did you like this episode? <a href=\"https://lovethepodcast.com/gutenbergchangelog\"><strong>Please write us a review </strong></a></li>\n\n\n\n<li>Ping us on X (formerly known as Twitter) or send DMs with questions. <a href=\"https://twitter.com/gutenbergtimes\">@gutenbergtimes </a>and <a href=\"https://twitter.com/bph\">@bph</a>.</li>\n\n\n\n<li><em>If you have questions or suggestions, or news you want us to include, send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a>. </em></li>\n\n\n\n<li><em>Please write us a review on iTunes! <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/itunes/\">(Click here to learn how)</a></em></li>\n</ul>\n</div></div>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-large-font-size\" id=\"transcript\"><strong>Transcript</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Welcome to our 124th episode of the Gutenberg Changelog podcast. In today&#8217;s episode, we will talk about Gutenberg 22.0 and WordPress 6.9 and so much more. I&#8217;m your host, Birgit Pauli-Haack, curator at the Gutenberg Times and a full-time core contributor for the WordPress open source project sponsored by Automattic. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Today on a Saturday morning, Ellen Bauer joins us from New Zealand. She works for Automattic as a product manager, works with themes, blocks and the AI site building tool. And as a former agency owner and professional theme builder and designer, she brings important perspectives to the software powering millions of merchants at WooCommerce of the World. She&#8217;s also a longtime friend and I&#8217;m delighted you join me again, Ellen, to the show. Welcome and how are you today?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>Thank you very much. That was a lovely introduction. I should copy that for my who I am. I actually like that. Thanks, Birgit. I&#8217;m very well. It&#8217;s very early in the morning for me, so please bear with me everyone. If I&#8217;m babbling a little bit. I yeah, I&#8217;m very well. I&#8217;m actually very recharged because I just returned from Botkin Kansai in Japan, and I added a little personal holiday on top of that with my family. So yeah, that was a lovely time away and it&#8217;s always good to connect to the community and attend WordCamps because yeah, you just feel recharged and inspired. So yeah, I&#8217;m feeling really excited and I&#8217;m happy to be on that podcast here again.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Always so glad you&#8217;re here. So don&#8217;t worry as long as you don&#8217;t snore. We are, we take anything that you want to say.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>Inspired my by my Japan travels. I&#8217;m having a green tea next to me so that should keep me running.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, and I have green tea too, but that&#8217;s now from a shop that I saw in Taipei two years ago at WordCamp Asia. So I&#8217;m really kind of every time I have a cup of tea, I&#8217;m thinking back on that. </p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">WordCamp Kansai, WordCamp Asia</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>So you gave a talk at WordCamp Kansai about building a WooCommerce store using block themes and AI site building. So how did it go and what did you learn from putting it together actually.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>So I was again, it&#8217;s a very new topic for me, so I was like, oh, what did I do to myself presenting that. But it was very exciting and there were a few AI talks that were really, really cool at the WordCamp. So it&#8217;s a good idea to check out the YouTube stream from the WordCamp other videos there. It was really cool to talk about a topic that I&#8217;m very excited about and just kind of getting into more and more with my work at Automatic as well. So I learned a lot. I looked at a lot of competitors and what they&#8217;re doing and obviously AI inside. It&#8217;s pretty wild what is happening and fast paced. So I think it was good to also bring the topic to a WordCamp and I had really, really positive feedback. Everyone was excited. The room was packed which I didn&#8217;t expect with an English speaking talk at a WordCamp. They had a live translation which worked really well and that was cool. A lot of questions in the end as well and a good conversation and yeah, just an exciting new opportunity for me. I see it as just AI is a possibility to help us fix or help us with the problems users have with site building because it&#8217;s not easy to do us to build your front end site for WordPress Store or any website. So if AI tools can help users, our WordPress users, us to do these things a little easier and faster and maybe more inspirational with real content, like more related content and images that relate to the site you actually want to build. I think that&#8217;s just very exciting. And yeah helps for me seeing users struggle with our themes as well and finding the right theme for what they wanted to build over the years. I think it&#8217;s just a great opportunity to make it easier for users and also kind of then yeah make WordPress attractive on another level to very beginner users and can just do so much. It&#8217;s an exciting time, honestly I think.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, yeah, no, I hear you. Yeah, There is this. WordPress.com has started with the AI site builder and I find it really helps with the onboarding of users that just want to get a site built. You still have to make the decisions about what&#8217;s your content about and what are the images that you want to do but. But it kind of gets out of the way in putting those things in and you don&#8217;t have to search for things too much. I think that WordPress 6.9 also and we&#8217;re going to talk a little bit later about the whole release that&#8217;s coming up with a command palette. Yeah, you can really shortcut some of the things, but you still need to know what you want to do to put the command in to get to where you want. But it&#8217;s also, yeah, there&#8217;s a lot of help out there. And I&#8217;m really excited also for the AI site building that ends up with a block theme and with a really fast site. So it&#8217;s a really cool thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer</em>: Yeah. What I like about it too, that it&#8217;s on the blocks patterns. Block theme foundation. What you can test. I really like it for something that is difficult for nonvisual users is you can get color palettes, ideas, you get template ideas. Because one of the things I always hear also with patterns from users, it&#8217;s like how do I decide which. You maybe have a pattern library in a theme, but it&#8217;s like how do you decide to put a page together with these patterns? It&#8217;s very challenging. Users don&#8217;t really know should I have testimonials in the bottom or at the top or what is most important? So there&#8217;s template page templates, suggestions shown and you can just pick one. It makes it way easier and more appealing. Same with like fonts. How should I know if the font is a professional font or a classic or more modern? It&#8217;s very difficult to tell. That&#8217;s like very advanced decisions you need to make on the design side as well. So if we can give suggestions and help, I think that makes it just easier and also more fun to build sites. Yeah. Another thing I probably have mentioned on the podcast is the word telex and doing. And you can test about it. Probably. Yeah. Because that&#8217;s also another thing I was like, oh, that&#8217;s so exciting because you can build blocks with AI and it&#8217;s so difficult to build blocks, but now it&#8217;s easy to have an idea and build a block.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. There was this blocktober fund by Tammie Lister which is now came to end. But there are 31, I think blocks that she built and she had some great ideas. I will put a link to it in the show notes again, but because what you can learn from there is also how you prompt the telex to actually get something out of it. So it was a really cool thing. And other people did also some, some great thing with Telex, the experimental block builder. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer:</em> So that was also part of my talk prompting tips. And I think you could do a whole talk just about that and it will be way more important moving on how we. Yeah. How we talk to AI to actually make it efficient.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, absolutely. </p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>And I&#8217;m really looking forward to the next flagship WordCamp where that will probably be even more prominent because the next one is WordCamp Asia in Mumbai. And I submitted some Talks there, not AI talks, but I&#8217;m still in the you build it yourself kind of block theme. I will do a workshop on block themes and how the different workflows work together. And so the good news was that the WordCamp Asia speaker team extended the deadline for speaker submission to December 15, which is kind of another month out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer:</em> So I thought it was November, right?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. And that was. They made a mistake on their Twitter account. I clarified that in the WC Asia channel on WordPress Slack so you can read up about it. But because there was a discrepancy between what the website said under speaker submission, what the tweet said. And it&#8217;s actually December 15th. Yeah, you don&#8217;t have to worry. Hurry next week.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer:</em> Oh, that is nice. The WordCamp Asia in Mumbai is. I just checked the date April 9 to 11 for everyone looking for travel dates and I submitted a talk as well. I will submit maybe a better version, improved version if I now have more time, which is great because it was a rushed application. But yeah, I&#8217;m really excited for that outcome and really, really hope I can make it there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, yeah. It&#8217;s the week after Easter so if you want to go a little bit earlier, you have some Easter holidays to cover your vacation, not to have to take. Well, in Germany we have three days, no two days vacation or holidays that are around Easter. So it&#8217;s a Good Friday as well as the Easter Monday they are off in Germany. So we have another holiday weekend that we could go there. So we plan to be a little bit ahead of time in Mumbai in India. So yeah, it&#8217;s going to be interesting. They also have a schedule of when they release tickets so you can go on the website and see that at the WordCamp Asia website, I think November 11th and then they have two more dates where they release tickets because the first one actually sold out within an hour or something like that. Yeah, yeah, I think it&#8217;s going to be a huge bootcamp.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>I think I got my tickets already for us, so. Yeah, but that&#8217;s nice that they released the dates.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, yeah. The Guternberg Times, I also applied for media partners, so either speaker or media partner, maybe I will get my tickets that way. </p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Announcements</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>So yeah, so we&#8217;re coming through the announcements. The first one that I wanted to talk about is that Anne McCarthy updated us in her post update on phase three collaboration efforts November 2025 on the state of the phase three, the progress made, what&#8217;s in the works for the Future and especially WordPress 7.0. Now we&#8217;re talking 7.0 on the eve of release candidate for 6.9; there is not a whole lot of more information out there and the post is talking about the real time collaboration with multiple authors. Edit the content simultaneously without conflict. Now this feature has been tested with a small group of clients from WordPress VIP, but they&#8217;re loving it it seems, and they are bringing things to Core WordPress 6.9 has the asynchronous notes of collaboration. That&#8217;s the commenting on blocks that comes to WordPress December, but it allows you to add comments directly on the content blocks and there will be refinements and additional features kind of coming in the future. And what&#8217;s also prepared for WordPress 10.0 is behind the scenes the contributors are rebuilding the admin screens with a new Data View and Data Forms tools. There&#8217;s a whole new Fields API that kind of runs the data form components and then you organize and display information on admin pages. Part of it is also Media Library revamp and the extensibility for plugin developers. So that&#8217;s pretty much kind of a short rundown of what&#8217;s in the post. It&#8217;s much more detailed information with links to GitHub issues and PRs and all that. Any comments?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>I&#8217;m actually really, really excited about that and the start of that. It&#8217;s cool to see that in 6.9 already. I think just collaboration in general within WordPress is one of the things missing to have this thing like in Google Docs we all kind of love it. It&#8217;s so easy and yeah, I&#8217;m just so, so excited to get that in because we have always run our Elmo Studio blog with two people and at some point like even we had guest authors. So yeah that just makes it so much easier to actually work together in WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah and well we use Google Docs for any of the articles be it on the developer blog or internally at Automattic or for the Gutenberg Times. And this would just eliminate one step because you still have that step left that you need to copy paste things over and put the images in. And if you can start drafting already in WordPress it eliminates so much time that you kind of win there. It&#8217;s really cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>I never, I can&#8217;t even write in Google Docs, and I&#8217;m actually I&#8217;m using Notion as a drafting tool because it just doesn&#8217;t look as nice so. And yeah just easier if you can just collaborate within your save so much time and effort and it just, it&#8217;s just Nice to see the people you&#8217;re working with in your post and kind of work together there, the comments and feedback and I think even also for design stuff like I love Figma comments as well. It&#8217;s just. Hello, it&#8217;s so good to give feedback. So even if we can have a block section or even on patterns, we can comment on design topics as well there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer:</em> So yeah, even for the visual part of feedback on pattern designs and stuff, it will be really exciting to use that too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, absolutely.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>For writers and content creators.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. So what is probably coming to WordPress 7.0 is that you also can highlight text. Not right now, you only can comment in the notes, just on single blocks. Yeah. So if the block is a long paragraph, you cannot just highlight things and then comment on that. So it&#8217;s not like Google Docs yet. But I think that&#8217;s the aim that developers have to make that work as well. I&#8217;m really excited for what&#8217;s to come. We&#8217;ll see. But it&#8217;s a lot of work. But the last half a year there has been some great progress there. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>All right, so the next thing that I wanted to point out here is the new the plugin review team has this plugin check plugin that you can as a plugin developer kind of use and check your plugins before you submit it. So you don&#8217;t get a whole lot of back and forth with the review team until they approve your plugin. That plugin also has a new version and the review team announced it just last week that they now not only screen new plugins that come to the repository, but also will screen updated plugins or plugin updates for security, compatibility and compliance. Right now it&#8217;s in testing form so currently the team evaluates the information only internally and sends reports to authors if needed. And they want to kind of. It&#8217;s like the normal WordPress way, you kind of look what it does and then you iterate on it. Yeah, they want to observe the behavior during updates and put in some refinements. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And after that initial testing phase, automated security reports will be emailed to authors right after the plugin updates. This is such a huge progress because plugins account for 96% of WordPress vulnerabilities in 2024 in a report. And that increased scrutiny on the WordPress plugins repository is really a huge impact on the health of the whole WordPress ecosystem and it definitely will make the web a better place with 43% of all websites being WordPress having that additional layer There is really going to be huge.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer:</em> I love that too because yeah, it&#8217;s funny, I just remembered when you said that most of the. As a theme author, I can&#8217;t even count the number of times I get support requests for something is broken. And first thing I always said, oh yeah, I kind of sensed, oh, it&#8217;s, it&#8217;s a plugin. It&#8217;s most of the time the theme is not affected because there&#8217;s not much to a theme. You have to deactivate all your plugins and check the list when the error occurs. I think. I don&#8217;t know how much time I spend on plugin support actually as a theme author.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. I mean security, if you put a point to it, is actually something the server or the hosting company should really implement as well as an agency. When we were dealing with other websites from other people that actually support their businesses. Yeah. We made sure that they are on a hosting company that actually has their own security screening and the automating, removing of malware if that occurs. The plan might be a little bit more expensive, but it&#8217;s kind of that peace of mind for all of us is really important. But yeah, even then things could get through.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>So yeah, yeah, this is like very important help.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Absolutely.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>I think that if the offerings also for Hostess got better over the years, I think and more awareness. But yeah, just funny. It&#8217;s like part of my WordPress history is fixing plugin update issues.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer:</em> Gosh.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. But I, I, that was work that I really hated.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>Yeah. Although it&#8217;s money because I was like, I&#8217;m just. It&#8217;s a theme, but it&#8217;s not the theme.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>No, no. It wasn&#8217;t something I thought or something like that. Or it was more like it&#8217;s not work that I would like to do. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>So it was also work that we weren&#8217;t paid for. It was a lot of support. We did.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>But even if you get paid, it&#8217;s not work you want to do.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>That&#8217;s true.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Well, some people do, but yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>So yeah, I didn&#8217;t like it either, but I had kind of. It&#8217;s funny if you do it like for so many years, like 10 years or so, you get a sense of. Also if you see the plugin that you already kind of know, like it&#8217;s like a six, then do you get on where the problem is? It&#8217;s kind of weird.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think also the site health plugin that the WordPress contributors put together is really helpful in just kind of eliminating the plugins and that kind of. Yeah, that really helped with the research. But yeah, that can also happen. Not in a security context. It&#8217;s just kind of. Yeah, it broke my site. Yeah. So some update because it was a plugin conflict and the site health plugin is really helpful for that. </p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Community Contributions</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>So there&#8217;s WordPress Studio. I think I&#8217;m not sure if we ever mentioned it here at the podcast. It&#8217;s an open source local development tool and it now can handle blueprints and those are Playground blueprints. So they&#8217;re lightweight and they&#8217;re fast to implement and it&#8217;s a topic close to my heart. This year I did many talks about Playground and the blueprints and you can watch three of them on WordPress TV and I will have the link in the show notes. They are now available also to be used in Studio because Studio is based on Playground so it makes spinning up new sites so much faster. You can select three pre-built blueprints. One is just a quickstart WordPress.com website or a site for building plugins or themes, or creating an online store with WooCommerce and companion plugins pre-installed. But you could also kind of build your own and have all the plugins that you ever want to need for any site and spin up a new site with the theme or with some standards that you in an agency or as a freelancer always use and then can work on it. And I love this local development tool and paired with Playground CLI. Yeah it made my testing and development so much easier. It&#8217;s really great.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>I use it every day as well. Yeah, I didn&#8217;t. I wasn&#8217;t aware that there&#8217;s a WooCommerce version of the blueprint as well. That is cool because you don&#8217;t need to go ahead and test. Sometimes you just need to test a store and you don&#8217;t want to install all the plugins yourself a little bit annoying. So that can be.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>It&#8217;s absolutely handy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>The next update I will cover that and it&#8217;s actually kind of an interesting thing and Matt blogged about it on his personal blog as well. So you can check out that link. It&#8217;s that a new plugin called the Internet Archive Wayback Machine Link Fixer. That&#8217;s a long name for plugin, but it helps to get an archived link to any kind of broken link that you have. Which for a lot of us who have older WordPress blogs or websites that is probably the case. And I actually I haven&#8217;t installed the plugin yet, but I will go to do that this weekend because yeah, that&#8217;s exciting. You can just get a link to any, any broken link to the Wayback Machine version, archived version of that website or blog post. And yeah, check out that post on Matt&#8217;s blog where he talks about it quickly and introduces it and yeah, I think that&#8217;s a really cool additional plugin that we have available to help with broken links. Really exciting. I love that. I will, I will test it and then maybe I blog about it too.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, yeah. So go ahead. The plugin is free, but you need a free account on the Internet Archive site to obtain an API key because you tap in right into this and to connect your site to the interactor Archive. And then step two and three, you just have to make some additional decisions. But they&#8217;re very well explained about if you want automatically your site kind of put into the Wayback Machine and all that. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Just for people who don&#8217;t know, the Internet Archive is a nonprofit library of millions of free text, movies, software, music, websites and more. And they run the Wayback Machine which pretty much surfaces previous versions of websites. So if you are new to a company and you want to do a redesign of the website, you probably want to go back and see what have they done in previous redesigns to kind of go back to see what&#8217;s important to them. And it&#8217;s probably a better way than to ask 15,000 questions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>Yeah, that&#8217;s a nice idea. I haven&#8217;t thought about that. I actually love to go sometimes on the Wayback Machine with Manu. Just kind of looking at the old designs we had for our own website. It&#8217;s so fun to do that. Old designs of other sites that you loved and really, really fun. You can check out the old WordPress. Org versions or even like the Google Google site. It&#8217;s just fun to do that. And you kind of get a little bit of a nostalgic feeling. Oh yes, I remember that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. So when I started Gutenberg Times I had the 2019 default theme on it. And then somewhere in 2020 I think I switched to the Excel theme by Anders Noren and there were a few things that didn&#8217;t work that way in the other themes. So I just kind of adopted. And then now I come back and kind of compare what was the old one and what was the new one. It was, it was really interesting because I&#8217;m now building the third theme for, for the site and I want to do it myself and now I can do whatever I want with it without having to follow a theme, but I still wanted to make sure that I have all the things that I thought were important also in the new theme. So we&#8217;ll see. I&#8217;m definitely going to share my journey.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>You plan to update that soon?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Soon as a relative term.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>When do you do it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> I&#8217;d like to have it by the end of the year, but we&#8217;ll see how that comes out. Yeah. I built it already. I needed an additional plugin for my podcast because I wanted to have the social icons from the podcast directories where our podcast is in. And only the 6.9 now has the possibilities that you can do custom social icons. So I tested that and it works. But I need to wait till it&#8217;s out too. So the plugin is available but it&#8217;s in the plugin repository. But I have one fix that I need to do. But also I wanted to have a better template for the podcast and the plugin API to register templates. That was in 6.8, but I needed to figure out how that works as well. Not all the things that I talk about. I know how to do it when I want to do it. It&#8217;s kind of really interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>Yeah. And it&#8217;s always just finding the time for these on the side things.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s Released &#8211; WordPress 6.9 Beta 4</h3>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. So now we&#8217;re coming to the what&#8217;s released section of our podcast and the first one is today, Friday, November 7, WordPress 6.9 beta 4 was released. It&#8217;s a quiet beta. It has a release post, but that&#8217;s on the make blog. Just because there was one thing that they needed to reverse and so they wanted before the release candidate on Tuesday, November 11, they wanted to have another beta to make sure everything works all right or the thing that they changed works all right. Let me put it this way. Yeah. So this is also a good place to talk about last minute WordPress 6.9 feature decisions. Contributors have decided to not move ahead with the enhanced template management feature for this version. The content only editing was also punted to 7.0 as well as the updated block binding UI for external sources, there were a few issues with all three of them during testing sessions and that can&#8217;t be While the content only editing was earlier decided that it&#8217;s not going to come to 6.9, but the other two, there were issues that couldn&#8217;t be resolved in the remaining time before the strength freeze in release candidate one, which is Tuesday. So yeah. Ellen, what are your favorite features for 6.9? Anything standing out for you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>Yes, I was looking forward to the template management feature of course we have to wait. We have to wait for that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> It&#8217;s still in Gutenberg. Yeah, it&#8217;s still in the plugin. It&#8217;s just not.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>Then second pick. I still am super excited that at least we start with the commenting option on post. Like on blocks and posts. I&#8217;m excited to just have this in there. Like that&#8217;s something we haven&#8217;t had in WordPress. So yeah, that&#8217;s. I think I would pick that as my favorite. And then instead.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Are you getting excited about the new blocks?</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>Oh, yes, new blocks as well. So the accordion, it&#8217;s actually nice to see that come in because we have started using that in WooCommerce for an update on the. Having the tabs for a description, like a product description, additional information and comments in there. So I think I&#8217;m a little bit semi proud. Maybe that pushed it, the accordion block into more attention, into Core and then the. I&#8217;m not sure if I have the name right. Is it called Sticky? Sticky Sketchy text? Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>No, Stretchy. Stretchy.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer:</em> Stretchy. Stretchy. That makes more sense. Yeah, just that&#8217;s from a designer perspective. It&#8217;s interesting actually to see that in Core because that&#8217;s like just a design tool and a fun kind of block. I love seeing that in Core. Yeah. Just nice to see this kind of more fun not experimental, but like just design tool core blocks coming in and then icons block. Really, really nice to have that. But that&#8217;s not like needed, wanted. Oh, no, that&#8217;s seven.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah, the icons block didn&#8217;t make it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>Oh, no. Oh, sorry.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Okay.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>We have to wait. Well, next year then we will get more excited. Yeah, I want that so badly.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, the icons block as well as the. The block visibility is there as well, but it&#8217;s more like the basic kind of feature, the foundation for what&#8217;s to come in 7.0. But it&#8217;s good to have it in talking about the accordions if you want to kind of get a little bit of a head start on styling accordions. Justin Tadlock just published last week a tutorial on how to style accordions with WordPress 6.9. And he walks you through how to do it in theme JSON and how to do a style variation as well as how to do the pattern for an accordion pattern. So that gives you a head start on updating your theme or your own site with it. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>What&#8217;s coming to the developer blog? We have just the editorial meeting yesterday. We just approved a snippet how you can also add structured data to your FAQ accordion. So it gets right into the SEO kind of thing because Google treats the FAQs differently. It kind of does answer question answers quite nicely. So you can make that also with the accordion. And he will publish that probably in about two weeks or three. We&#8217;ll see how that comes. Yeah. There&#8217;s also on the developer blog where additional theme related things like the border radius, size presets that come into WordPress 6.9 and also I mentioned it, the social icons, custom icons that you want if you want them. Also a tutorial on the developer blog register custom social icons and we have one more that is the how to style forms with theme JSON that comes also with six point nine.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>That&#8217;s a big one. Oh, that&#8217;s cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Absolutely.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>Very exciting because that&#8217;s one of the things you miss that was missing always for themes and our custom icons. Actually I think it&#8217;s a bigger feature than you think because that was always for years one of the requests like how do I get my own icon in there? Like, oh, it&#8217;s missing. Like maybe certain countries have their big individual icons that were not what kind of icons icons, but tools, social.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> I can. Websites. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>I remember there was a German one we were always asked for. I don&#8217;t remember what it was, but from different communities you get different requests.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yeah. In Germany there was this ext or next or something like that was a social one. Right. But that kind of folded into LinkedIn now. So. All right, I&#8217;ll put the links to the developer blog posts into the show notes and so you can all follow along on that. </p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Gutenberg 22.0</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>And that brings US to Gutenberg 22.0, and Carlos Bravo was the release lead on that and he kind of said that it was a relatively quiet Gutenberg release because it followed the WordPress point release and it normally prioritizes core quality and bug fixes over new enhancements. So we probably get here pretty quickly go through that. </p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Enhancements</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Well, I’ll start with the block library changes in the navigation block. You can have a button create a new page, but you create it and then what happened. Now you have a notice that there was a page created and how to find it. So that&#8217;s really cool. It&#8217;s a quality of life improvement that. Yeah, you only notice that it&#8217;s there or that it&#8217;s not there, but it&#8217;s missing all the time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer:</em> And the second one was that breadcrumbs now get support for archives. That was missing, just missing before, Birgit.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, so breadcrumbs came in actually with this Release out of experimentation, but it will not make it to 6.9. But the breadcrumbs block is a new block and the archive support was. There were kinds of discussions about how deep does the first version has to go. And now that it&#8217;s not getting into 6.9, it just gets. Just ongoing improvements. So it gets into WordPress 7.0.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>Yeah, I love that. For blogs, that makes a huge difference.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Absolutely. That&#8217;s one thing. Also, when you have a huge site and you have 50 pages or something like that, your visitors most very often get lost. Unless you have additional navigation in there, and breadcrumbs help you so you don&#8217;t have to do this all manually and kind of think about how to get back to other places. I really love that. That and that the team actually takes time to get to work on this a little longer. And so the version is actually delightful and not just like an MVP or something like that. Yeah. The next one is that the categories block has a taxonomy CSS class now. So that&#8217;s probably only interesting for people that were looking for that and had to do custom CSS to kind of figure that out. But that&#8217;s definitely now in Gutenberg 22.0.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>I think having CSS classes for pretty specific things from theme author perspective, just helpful. A lot of time to just have that in there. So I like that. The next one was that I think that&#8217;s just added an explanation to the fit text feature that it gets just a description is added, that it overrides the default font settings.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>So that&#8217;s what I wasn&#8217;t visible just for users being aware of that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>I think so. Yeah. That&#8217;s just a mix. Users are aware that sometimes you don&#8217;t get the connection, that if you have one option, the other option goes away. Yeah. So.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>And I think that helps. So I think yeah, they just added it fit into the container and then overrides your font&#8217;s default font setting. That helps to just explain it better.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, absolutely. And just now that we&#8217;re talking about it, the stretchy text, they are still not sure if the font size or the font option or separate blocks. So they&#8217;re now getting into a variation for 6.9. I have not seen that issue or the pull request actually be merged, but we&#8217;ll see if it&#8217;s going to be in Release candidate one or it still stays as it is and comes in 5.7, 7.0. Why 5.7? That&#8217;s wrong. Yeah. The latest comments block now has an option to display full comments so there were only two versions. One was just the title and then an excerpt. And then now you can have all the full comments displayed in your post template or page template. So that&#8217;s also pretty cool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer:</em> One additional new update is also in the global styles and actually Birgit had to help me figure that out. Global styles are now, can now be accessed in the post editor. But you need to have. What is it? You need to have Active show template template. Yeah, show template. And it&#8217;s like, okay, where is show template Burgundy? Had to help me out with that one. It was under preview.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> It was the preview of the test.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>So where you, where you look for the tablet and the mobile version of the preview, you also have the show template and I couldn&#8217;t find it. And then you get the little icon for global styles.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, yeah. And then you can make changes. Yeah, you can make changes to, to your template on the global level, which really helps with. You don&#8217;t have to go back and go through the templates and all that. So it&#8217;s really interesting. I haven&#8217;t really worked with that yet because I didn&#8217;t find a need for that. But I, I can see that then all of a sudden post in the template when it says, oh, this is wrong, you just want to go in and make a small change of things. So this is helpful to not have to get out of your post and then have to go into the site editor and the template. And yeah, it&#8217;s kind of just a shortcut for.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>I think it also builds like having that connection also builds a little bit more awareness for users of the connection between where what a template actually is and that you can. What global styles are that you have that connection of. Oh, the global styles are connected to the template of this post and if I change something there, it&#8217;s changed in the post. I think there&#8217;s still difficulty for users to understand that connection if the templates are hidden and the global styles are hidden in just the site editor.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>So that&#8217;s a good point.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>It just builds that connection.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>That&#8217;s a good point. Yeah. Thank you. I haven&#8217;t even thought about it, but that helps people figure out because the template, new WordPress users might not have that problem, but long time WordPress users, they never had to deal with templates because it was all, it was all something that the theme developer would do for them and they were just using it. But now that they have control over it, they also kind of need to be aware what they&#8217;re doing with it. And the enhanced template management is Also part of it, that it needs to be a little bit less confusing. And also follow some. Some things that they say if I change something on a template, I don&#8217;t want it to go public without me knowing. So I want a draft section there and keep the other template going until the other one, the new one is finished. So that is something that comes with enhanced template management and I&#8217;m really looking forward to that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer:</em> That will be exciting also to make templates more exciting to play with because. Yeah, I think there&#8217;s still an amazing amount of confusion of what a template versus a page actually is. So just if users play more with custom templates and build their own, I think that builds more awareness of that. The difference between these two.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So I think one of the last things that we want to talk about here is the. That the math block, which is a new block coming to 6.9. Yeah. Yeah. I&#8217;m love it. I actually was in school, I had all these big formulas to talk about. To write and. Yeah. And I was never kind of thinking, oh, I could do a blog post about things that. Because I had no way of knowing how to do the formulas. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>And you can&#8217;t really output them.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. And they follow the mathwork, follows latex formatting, which is the math kind of language, and then puts it into your site. And now it also. It&#8217;s now enabled. Horizontal scrolling is now enabled because those formulas can be really, really long. And so you can kind of have a horizontal scrolling on your formula so you don&#8217;t have to kind of put line breaks in there where no line breaks. I want that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer:</em> I want to start a blog to blog about math. I was never good at math, but I always. It&#8217;s admiring too. I love it. So maybe we should all start blogging about math now.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer:</em> Problems.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Math problems. Yeah. Especially fractions and all that kind of. What was it? Five. You&#8217;re very long.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>So we need the scrolling.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Yeah, we can do the scrolling. Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Experiments</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>And I&#8217;m gonna scroll further through the changelog and I&#8217;m stopping at the experiments because the real time collaboration experiment is still on in Gutenberg and we talked about it, but there have also been some changes now. And one is that it&#8217;s supporting synced post data and it also the YJS import is actually behind the experimental flag, which is actually a code quality thing. And they implemented CRDT persistence for collaborative editing. And that just means that&#8217;s the. The saving of your immediate changes and then the sync part that works persistently on your collaborative editing plane. It&#8217;s a really complicated thing to do. But they seem to have figured it out with that library, the YJS and Kevin, who is the maintainer of that, was part of the initial MVP of the collaborative editing and now. Yeah, so it&#8217;s really cool. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>And you need to go install 2020.0 Gutenberg plugin and then go to the Gutenberg menu item and enable the look at the experiments page and enable real time collaboration. So there are a few steps there to get to that, but that&#8217;s good. So it all stays behind the experimental flag as long as it&#8217;s in development. Good. </p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">What’s in Active Development or Discussed</h3>\n\n\n\n<p>So for the developers amongst you listener, there is. I&#8217;m sharing an issue about the version 2 of the build WordPress scripts where Riad Benguella, one of the lead architects of Gutenberg has opened this issue about kind of making scripts a little bit more flexible and also have the point that it comes easier and feels a little bit more simple. But that&#8217;s all is good. Good goals I would say but I think the technology is a little bit more complicated. But I will share that for all the developers on the show or who listen here to check out because Riad needs people who build plugins and have a build process and use the WordPress scripts to actually test the version 2 so they can catch all the edge cases and all the use cases before they actually migrate that all over. So that&#8217;s my thing. Alan, is there something that you want to remind people about upcoming events or releases.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>Actually I can&#8217;t think of anything at the moment.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> So if people want to connect with you, where would they find you on the.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>I&#8217;m definitely on the Slack WordPress Developer Slack or on social. I think I&#8217;m moving more and more to Blue Sky.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Okay.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>And yeah also on X and there and YouTube is like a thing I want to be more present and add more content to. So yeah, I have a YouTube channel. I think you can find me just under my name on all of these or maybe Elmer studio on the YouTube. I&#8217;m not sure. I think both is possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Okay. Yeah I will share share this all in the show notes and as always. Oh I wanted to announce something. Sorry on November 13th. That&#8217;s next week. If you listen to this over the weekend you get the chance to see the developer hours come back to the online workshops on Learn on Meetup and JuanMa and Jonathan Bosinger are going over the developer parts of WordPress 6.9 one is the Data Views and Data Forms and Fields API. The other one is the Abilities API and they might even be covering Interactivity API, seeing what kind of time they have. But that&#8217;s on meetup on November 13, just to let you know.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>Exciting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack:</em> Yes. As always, the show notes will be published on GutenbergTimes.com/podcast. This is episode 124. 124. And if you have questions and suggestions or news you want us to include, send them to <a href=\"http://changelogutenbergtimes.com\">changelogutenbergtimes.com</a> that&#8217;s <a href=\"http://changelogutenbergtimes.com\">changelogutenbergtimes.com</a> and if you want to leave a review on Apple or podcast or Pocketcast or any other of your favorite podcast, only.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>Five star, of course.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Well, I, I take anyone. Yeah, that, that&#8217;s kind of how I connect with the listeners and if you can improve.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>But you deserve the best.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Well, thank you. Thank you. I think so. But yeah, maybe other people have a different opinion and my, my opinion only counts when I&#8217;m home alone. So. Yeah. So thanks everyone. And until the next time, be well. And we see we hear each other just before Thanksgiving. And thanks to Ellen Bauer for coming to us.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>Thank you. Bye, everyone.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Birgit Pauli-Haack: </em>Take care.</p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>Ellen Bauer: </em>Bye. Bye.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sun, 09 Nov 2025 13:22:38 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:44;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:20:\"Matt: Ben on Bubbles\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=150519\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:37:\"https://ma.tt/2025/11/ben-on-bubbles/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:181:\"<p>Check out Ben Thompson of Stratechery (one of the most valuable subscriptions) on <a href=\"https://stratechery.com/2025/the-benefits-of-bubbles/\">The Benefits of Bubbles</a>.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sun, 09 Nov 2025 04:45:06 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:45;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:117:\"Gutenberg Times: State of the Word, WordPress 6.9, Forms styling, Interactivity API, and more — Weekend Edition 348\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:35:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/?p=42665\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:120:\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/state-of-the-word-wordpress-6-9-forms-styling-interactivity-api-and-more-weekend-edition-348/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23797:\"<p>Hi there, </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Next week is Release Candidate 1 week! Subscribe to the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/\">Make Core Blog</a>, if you haven&#8217;t yet, to get all the Dev Notes and the Fieldguide notifications. &#8220;String freeze&#8221; is this state of the release called until the final release on December 2, 2025. It&#8217;s also the start of the last four weeks when the wonderful translators of the <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/teams/\">Polyglots team</a> work to bring the new version to many dozens of languages. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>This week was busy, too, though. I hope you enjoy all the good things below.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Yours, <img alt=\"💕\" class=\"wp-smiley\" src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/16.0.1/72x72/1f495.png\" style=\"height: 1em;\" /><br /><em>Birgit</em></p>\n\n\n<section class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-group\" style=\"padding-top: 10px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;\">\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-flow wp-block-group-is-layout-flow\">\n<p><strong>Table of Contents</strong></p>\n\n\n\n<nav class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents\"><ol><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/state-of-the-word-wordpress-6-9-forms-styling-interactivity-api-and-more-weekend-edition-348/#0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</a><ol><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/state-of-the-word-wordpress-6-9-forms-styling-interactivity-api-and-more-weekend-edition-348/#wordpress-6-9\">WordPress 6.9</a></li></ol></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/state-of-the-word-wordpress-6-9-forms-styling-interactivity-api-and-more-weekend-edition-348/#0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/state-of-the-word-wordpress-6-9-forms-styling-interactivity-api-and-more-weekend-edition-348/#2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</a></li><li><a class=\"wp-block-table-of-contents__entry\" href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/state-of-the-word-wordpress-6-9-forms-styling-interactivity-api-and-more-weekend-edition-348/#3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor.</a></li></ol></nav>\n</div></div>\n</section>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\" width=\"100%\"></div>\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.9 is not the only major WordPress event on <strong>December 2, 2025</strong>. On this day, <strong>Matt Mullenweg</strong>&#8216;s annual keynote, <strong><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/state-of-the-word/\">State of the Word</a></strong>, will be livestreamed from San Francisco, CA. It will take place around noon Pacific Time and will be recorded so the other half of the World can watch it on the rerun, so to speak. Being there in person is also possible with limited seating. You can request a ticket on the landing page. You might find a watch party near you or you can register your own party. </p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><a href=\"https://wordpress.org/state-of-the-word/\"><img alt=\"Matt Mullenweg announced Gutenberg Roadmap at WordCamp Europe 2018\" class=\"wp-image-11856\" height=\"435\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/WordCamp-Europe-2018.jpg?resize=652%2C435&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"652\" /></a></figure>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-word-press-release-information\">Developing Gutenberg and WordPress</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Carlos Bravo</strong> released Gutenberg 22.0, and in his post <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/11/05/whats-new-in-gutenberg-22-0-05-november/\"><strong>What’s new in Gutenberg 22.0? (5 November)</strong></a>, he noted &#8220;Typically, the Gutenberg release following a WordPress point release focuses on core quality and bug fixes over new enhancements. As such, this will be a relatively quiet release.&#8221; He highlighted two things, both already slated for WordPress 7.0 and later. </p>\n\n\n\n<ol class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/11/05/whats-new-in-gutenberg-22-0-05-november/#real-time-collab-post-meta\">Real-time Collaboration: Post Meta Synchronization</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/11/05/whats-new-in-gutenberg-22-0-05-november/#new-theme-package\">A new theme package</a></li>\n</ol>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Anne McCarthy</strong> published an <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/11/06/update-on-phase-3-2025/\"><strong>Update on Phase 3: Collaboration efforts (Nov 2025)</strong></a> and noted that WordPress Phase 3 focuses on making teamwork easier.</p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Real-time collaboration lets multiple authors edit content simultaneously without conflicts. </li>\n\n\n\n<li>Block Notes, arriving in WordPress 6.9, allows users to add comments directly on content blocks. </li>\n\n\n\n<li>Behind the scenes, WordPress is rebuilding admin screens with new DataView and DataForm tools, which organize and display information better while letting developers customize them easily across different admin pages.</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Rae Morey</strong> expands on this update in her article, <a href=\"https://www.therepository.email/real-time-collaboration-flagged-for-wordpress-7-0-amid-ongoing-technical-challenges\"><strong>Real-Time Collaboration Flagged for WordPress 7.0 Amid Ongoing Technical Challenges</strong></a> and includes additional information about the VIP plugin as well as this year&#8217;s progress.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Ellen Bauer</strong> joined me from New Zealand to record the next podcast episode with me Gutenberg Changelog #124. We talked a lot about WordPress 6.9, WordCamps, Block Themes and more. It&#8217;ll arrive at your favorite podcast app over the weekend. </p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full\"><img alt=\"Gutenberg Changelog 124 with Ellen Bauer and Birgit Pauli-Haack \" class=\"wp-image-42695\" height=\"185\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/Screenshot-2025-11-07-at-18.56.39.png?resize=652%2C185&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"652\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-group has-light-background-background-color has-background\"><div class=\"wp-block-group__inner-container is-layout-constrained wp-block-group-is-layout-constrained\">\n<p><img alt=\"🎙\" class=\"wp-smiley\" src=\"https://s.w.org/images/core/emoji/16.0.1/72x72/1f399.png\" style=\"height: 1em;\" /> The latest episode is <a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast/gutenberg-changelog-124-gutenberg-22-wordpress-6-9/\">Gutenberg Changelog #124 – Gutenberg 22.0 and WordPress 6.9</a> with <strong>Ellen Bauer</strong>, project lead at Automattic. </p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-full is-style-no-vertical-margin\"><img alt=\"Gutenberg Changelog 124 with Ellen Bauer and Birgit Pauli-Haack\" class=\"wp-image-42695\" height=\"185\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/Screenshot-2025-11-07-at-18.56.39.png?resize=652%2C185&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"652\" /></figure>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\" width=\"100%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-pocket-casts wp-block-embed-pocket-casts\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div></figure>\n</div></div></div>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"wordpress-6-9\">WordPress 6.9</h3>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/11/07/wordpress-6-9-beta-4/\"><strong>WordPress 6.9 Beta 4</strong></a> is now available for testing. As always, the post shows you four different ways how you can start with your testing sessions.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Contributors decided on punting the <em>enhanced template management</em> features to WordPress 7.0. A few issues surfaced during testing sessions that can’t be resolved in the remaining time before string freeze with Release Candidate 1.  </p>\n\n\n\n<p>WordPress 6.9 Release Candidate 1 is scheduled for November 11, 2025, and so are the Dev Notes, updates for developers about the relevant changes: </p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li>Interactivity API</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Abilities API</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Block Bindings API</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Streaming Block Parser </li>\n\n\n\n<li>Modernizing UTF-8  support</li>\n\n\n\n<li>Updates to the HTML API</li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>JuanMa Garrido</strong> and <strong>Jonathan Bossenger</strong>, developer advocates at Automattic,  invite you to join them for a Developer Hour: <a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/311854653/\"><strong>WordPress 6.9: developer updates</strong></a> on <strong>November 13, 2025, at 10 am UTC</strong> &#8211; It&#8217;s a bit early for US timezone&#8217;s though. The session will be recorded and appear shortly after on WordPressTV. </p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><a href=\"https://www.meetup.com/learn-wordpress-online-workshops/events/311854653/\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-42709\" height=\"576\" src=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/Devhours-1024x576.avif\" width=\"1024\" /></a></figure>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>Styling form elements with the Block editor becomes much easier. <strong>Justin Tadlock</strong> posted a tutorial on the WordPress Developer Blog on <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/11/how-wordpress-6-9-gives-forms-a-theme-json-makeover/\"><strong>How WordPress 6.9 gives forms a theme.json makeover</strong></a>. WordPress 6.9 introduces theme.json support for form styling on text inputs and select dropdowns, enabling designers to apply border, color, shadow, and spacing properties globally. However, focus states, labels, checkboxes, and other form elements still require custom CSS. This is just the beginning. Contributors are working on releasing more form styling options in the future. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Other articles on WordPress 6.9 features to come: </p>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/10/styling-accordions-in-wordpress-6-9/\">Styling accordions in WordPress 6.9</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/09/border-radius-size-presets-in-wordpress-6-9/\">Border radius size presets in WordPress 6.9</a></li>\n\n\n\n<li><a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/2025/08/registering-custom-social-icons-in-wordpress-6-9/\">Registering custom social icons in WordPress 6.9</a></li>\n</ul>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Dave Smith</strong>, core contributor on Gutenberg, explains in his video <a href=\"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F9jWikYkec\"><strong>WordPress 6.9 FIXES Navigation Links</strong></a> the main change to the Navigation block in WordPress 6.9. Now the navigation links are dynamic and adopt automatically when you change a slug. </p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\" width=\"100%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div></figure>\n</div>\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"0-p\">Plugins, Themes, and Tools for #nocode site builders and owners</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Steve Burge</strong>, Publish Press, <a href=\"https://bsky.app/profile/steveburge.com/post/3m4tk5cjpks22\">announced</a> the new version of <a href=\"https://wordpress.org/plugins/advanced-gutenberg/\"><strong>Gutenberg Blocks</strong></a> (v 3.5.2). It brings a new feature to the block editor. &#8220;You can just create your own styles for any block.&#8221; A socalled Style builder is now available to create these style all no-code.</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-42691\" height=\"366\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/11/PublishPress-Block-Style-builder-edited.jpg?resize=652%2C366&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"652\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Velda Christiansen</strong>, member of the training team and support engineer at Automattic, held another workshop to teach WordPress users about <a href=\"https://wordpress.tv/2025/11/04/landing-pages-posts-more-strategies-for-a-stronger-site/\"><strong>Landing Pages, Posts &amp; More: Strategies for a Stronger Site</strong></a>. It was a workshop on WordPress content strategies, demonstrating how to create effective landing pages through template customization. Christiansen addressed attendees&#8217; technical questions and concluded by discussing hosting, email strategies, monetization options, and resources for further learning.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"2-word-press-6-0-1-and-6-1-scheduled\">Theme Development for Full Site Editing and Blocks</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Iliana Mustafa</strong>, Digital Marketing Manager at HumanMade, shared by <strong><a href=\"https://humanmade.com/full-site-editing/building-smarter-not-harder-why-we-embraced-fse-for-our-own-website-redesign/\">Why we embraced FSE for our own website redesign</a></strong>. &#8220;One of the biggest wins of the redesign has been how much ownership our marketing and content team now has over the site.&#8221; She wrote. </p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Johanne Courtright</strong> addressed a challenge with forms: providing styling controls for Gravity Forms in the block editor. In her blog post <a href=\"https://groundworx.dev/resources/making-gravity-forms-inputs-play-nice-with-block-themes/\"><strong>Making Gravity Forms Inputs Play Nice with Block Themes</strong></a>, she outlines her method, which includes converting Gravity Forms buttons to standard WordPress block buttons using PHP, applying scalable input styling with CSS custom properties, and offering nine color customization options in Gutenberg. This system keeps form input elements intact while enhancing Gravity Forms&#8217; structure, allowing for proportional scaling through font-size changes and easy use as standalone styles or complete plugin integration.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p>On the WPTavern Jukebox, <strong>Nathan Wrigley</strong> interviewed <a href=\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/192-joshua-bryant-on-how-dow-jones-is-supercharging-wordpress-editorial-workflows\"><strong>Joshua Bryant on How Dow Jones Is Supercharging WordPress Editorial Workflows</strong></a>. They discussed  how Dow Jones decoupled Gutenberg from WordPress Admin, embedding it into a standalone React application to accelerate breaking news publication.  Bryant explained that Dow Jones operates Wall Street Journal, Barron&#8217;s, and MarketWatch on WordPress Multisite but needed faster editorial workflows for time-sensitive content. He emphasized that discovering WordPress&#8217;s global WP object handling was challenging but revealed how well-engineered WordPress truly is.</p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-showhide ng-block\" width=\"100%\">\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-pocket-casts wp-block-embed-pocket-casts\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div></figure>\n</div>\n\n<section class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-callout undefined not-color-set\" style=\"border-color: #f9f9e5; border-radius: 22px; border-style: solid; border-width: 0; padding-top: 20px; padding-bottom: 20px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; text-align: left; margin-left: 0; margin-right: 0; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; background-color: #f9f9e5;\">\n<p><strong> <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\">&#8220;Keeping up with Gutenberg &#8211; Index 2025&#8221;</a> </strong><br />A chronological list of the WordPress Make Blog posts from various teams involved in Gutenberg development: Design, Theme Review Team, Core Editor, Core JS, Core CSS, Test, and Meta team from Jan. 2024 on. Updated by yours truly. The previous years are also available: <strong><strong><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2020/\">2020</a> | <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2021/\">2021</a></strong> | <strong><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index-2022/\">2022</a></strong></strong> | <strong><a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/gutenberg-index-2023\">2023</a></strong> | <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/references/keeping-up-with-gutenberg-index/gutenberg-index-2024/\"><strong>2024</strong></a></p>\n</section>\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"3-building-themes-for-fse-and-word-press\">Building Blocks and Tools for the Block editor.</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Carlo Daniele</strong>, Kinsta, helps you <a href=\"https://kinsta.com/blog/wordpress-interactivity-api/\"><strong>unlock new possibilities with the WordPress Interactivity API</strong></a>. &#8220;This API enables you to create blocks that react in real time to user interactions, allowing you to create rich user experiences and make your sites attractive, dynamic, and engaging.&#8221;, he wrote Daniele guides readers through the WordPress Interactivity API by explaining its core concepts, breaking down technical file structures, and then demonstrating practical application by building an interactive shopping cart block from scratch. He moves from theory to hands-on implementation with code examples and visual aids. <br /></p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>JuanMa Garrido</strong> introduced <a href=\"https://juanma.codes/2025/11/02/a-dataviews-powered-explorer-for-the-abilities-api/\"><strong>A DataViews-powered explorer for the Abilities API</strong></a> on his personal blog. He created an Abilities Dashboard prototype that combines WordPress&#8217;s Abilities API with DataViews, a React component system. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>The <a href=\"https://make.wordpress.org/ai/2025/07/17/abilities-api/\">Abilities API</a> allows plugins to describe their capabilities in a machine-readable format for AI tools and automation. Building on <a href=\"https://github.com/karmatosed/abilitiesexplorer\"><strong>Tammie Lister&#8217;s Abilities Explorer plugin</strong></a>, Garrido developed a client-side dashboard using DataViews, aligning with modern WordPress admin interfaces. His project demonstrates how DataViews can effectively display and interact with Abilities data, serving as a reference for this emerging intersection of AI and data management in WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Troy Chaplin,</strong> web developer from Ottawa, shared the <a href=\"https://developer.wordpress.org/news/snippets/limiting-allowed-blocks-without-breaking-the-site-editor/\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\" target=\"_blank\"><strong>Snippet: Limiting allowed blocks without breaking the Site Editor</strong></a> on the WordPress Developer Blog. &#8220;By scoping the <code>allowed_block_types_all</code> filter to post types and editor context, you keep the best of both worlds: editorial consistency for authors and full creative control for designers. A small change, but one that can save hours of confusion down the road.&#8221; he wrote in his conclusion. </p>\n\n\n<section class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-callout undefined not-color-set\" style=\"border-color: #eeeeee; border-radius: 26px; border-style: solid; border-width: 0; padding-top: 20px; padding-bottom: 20px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; text-align: left; margin-left: 0; margin-right: 0; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; background-color: #f3efe9;\">\n<p><strong><a href=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/need-a-zip-from-master/\">Need a plugin .zip from Gutenberg&#8217;s master branch?</a></strong><br />Gutenberg Times provides daily build for testing and review. </p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now also available via <a href=\"https://playground.wordpress.net/?blueprint-url=https://gutenbergtimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/playnightly.json\">WordPress Playground</a>. There is no need for a test site locally or on a server. Have you been using it? <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">Email me </a>with your experience</p>\n\n\n\n<p><img alt=\"GitHub all releases\" src=\"https://img.shields.io/github/downloads/bph/gutenberg/total?style=for-the-badge\" /></p>\n</section>\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center has-small-font-size\"><em>Questions? Suggestions? Ideas? </em><br /><em>Don&#8217;t hesitate to send <a href=\"mailto:pauli@gutenbergtimes.com\">them via email</a> or</em><br /><em> send me a message on WordPress Slack or Twitter @bph</em>.</p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-center has-small-font-size\">For questions to be answered on the <a href=\"http://gutenbergtimes.com/podcast\">Gutenberg Changelog</a>, <br />send them to <a href=\"mailto:changelog@gutenbergtimes.com\">changelog@gutenbergtimes.com</a></p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n<section class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-group\" style=\"padding-top: 10px; padding-bottom: 10px; padding-left: 20px; padding-right: 20px; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px;\">\n<p>Featured Image: Image generated with <a href=\"https://jetpack.com/ai/\">Jetpack AI assistant. </a></p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-text-align-left\"><strong>Don&#8217;t want to miss the next Weekend Edition? </strong></p>\n\n\n<form action=\"https://gutenbergtimes.com/feed/\" autocomplete=\"on\" class=\"wp-block-newsletterglue-form ngl-form ngl-portrait\" method=\"post\"><div class=\"ngl-form-container\"><div class=\"ngl-form-field\" style=\"margin-bottom: 25px;\"><label class=\"ngl-form-label\" for=\"ngl_email\"><br />Type in your Email address to subscribe.</label><div class=\"ngl-form-input\"><input autocomplete=\"email\" class=\"ngl-form-input-text\" id=\"ngl_email\" name=\"ngl_email\" required=\"required\" style=\"border-radius: 21px;\" type=\"email\" /></div></div><button class=\"ngl-form-button\" style=\"background-color: #005075; border-color: #005075; border-width: 1px; border-style: solid; color: #ffffff; border-radius: 21px;\" type=\"submit\">Subscribe</button><p class=\"ngl-form-text\">We hate spam, too, and won&#8217;t give your email address to anyone <br />except Mailchimp to send out our Weekend Edition</p></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay\"><div class=\"ngl-message-svg-wrap\"><svg fill=\"none\" height=\"24\" stroke=\"#fff\" stroke-width=\"2\" viewBox=\"0 0 24 24\" width=\"24\" xmlns=\"http://www.w3.org/2000/svg\"><polyline points=\"20 6 9 17 4 12\"></polyline></svg></div><div class=\"ngl-message-overlay-text\">Thanks for subscribing.</div></div><input id=\"ngl_list_id\" name=\"ngl_list_id\" type=\"hidden\" value=\"26f81bd8ae\" /><input id=\"ngl_double_optin\" name=\"ngl_double_optin\" type=\"hidden\" value=\"yes\" /></form>\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-css-opacity is-style-wide\" />\n</section>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Sat, 08 Nov 2025 04:31:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:18:\"Birgit Pauli-Haack\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:46;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:19:\"Matt: Kaycee Nicole\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=150513\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:36:\"https://ma.tt/2025/11/kaycee-nicole/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:409:\"<p>Mimi Lamarre at Switchboard Magazine has a delightful long read in <a href=\"https://www.switchboardmagazine.com/monthly/the-curious-case-of-kaycee-nicole\">The Curious Case of Kaycee Nicole</a>, where, in the early days of online communities and blogging, a fake person claimed to have leukemia. The blogging community was relatively small back then, and I recall some of this happening contemporarily. </p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 07 Nov 2025 23:36:21 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:47;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:38:\"Matt: Conversation with John Borthwick\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=150504\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:37:\"https://ma.tt/2025/11/john-borthwick/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:1089:\"<p>I&#8217;m often on the other side, but it&#8217;s such a delight to be an interviewer, I really enjoy it and put a lot of work into coming up with questions and shaping a conversation I think will draw out something novel from the person. Besides the <a href=\"https://distributed.blog/\">Distributed Podcast</a>, I&#8217;ve had a chance at events to interview great minds such as Steve Jurvetson, <a href=\"https://patrickcollison.com/\">Patrick Collison</a>, <a href=\"https://dri.es/\">Dries Buytaert</a>, and now John Borthwick.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We discussed his early investments in Airbnb and Tumblr, what made the NYC tech scene so special back then, and how it has evolved since. We also touched on the recent mayoral race, where Betaworks fits into the city&#8217;s tech ecosystem, and delved into one of my favorite topics: the comparison between open-source and proprietary models in AI.</p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed alignwide is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n\n</div></figure>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Fri, 07 Nov 2025 06:45:51 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:48;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:20:\"Matt: Post-talk Recs\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:23:\"https://ma.tt/?p=150494\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:37:\"https://ma.tt/2025/11/post-talk-recs/\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:913:\"<p>I just got off stage from the <a href=\"https://luma.com/fy86k4w5\">great dev/ai/nyc event with John Borthwick</a>, we had a wide-ranging discussion that we&#8217;ll post online soon. We had hundreds of people in the room and hundreds on the waitlist&#8230; the energy in NYC is electric! </p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-150495\" height=\"805\" src=\"https://i0.wp.com/ma.tt/files/2025/11/borthwick-mullenweg-768x1024.jpeg?resize=604%2C805&#038;quality=89&#038;ssl=1\" width=\"604\" /></figure>\n\n\n\n<p>As a few recommendations from the event, I recommended revisiting the <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Her_(2013_film)\">movie Her</a> and <a href=\"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_series\">Iain M. Banks Culture series</a>, John recommended <a href=\"https://amzn.to/47LYJ7D\">The MANIAC about John von Neumann</a>, which I&#8217;ll add to my reading queue now.</p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Thu, 06 Nov 2025 01:55:39 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:4:\"Matt\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}i:49;a:6:{s:4:\"data\";s:21:\"\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n	\n\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";s:5:\"child\";a:2:{s:0:\"\";a:5:{s:5:\"title\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:96:\"WPTavern: #192 – Joshua Bryant on How Dow Jones Is Supercharging WordPress Editorial Workflows\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"guid\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:48:\"https://wptavern.com/?post_type=podcast&p=200562\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:4:\"link\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:110:\"https://wptavern.com/podcast/192-joshua-bryant-on-how-dow-jones-is-supercharging-wordpress-editorial-workflows\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:11:\"description\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:56442:\"<details>Transcription<div>\n<p>[00:00:19] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Welcome to the Jukebox Podcast from WP Tavern. My name is Nathan Wrigley.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jukebox is a podcast which is dedicated to all things WordPress, the people, the events, the plugins, the blocks, the themes, and in this case, how Dow Jones is supercharging WordPress editorial workflows.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;d like to subscribe to the podcast, you can do that by searching for WP Tavern in your podcast player of choice, or by going to wptavern.com/feed/podcast, and you can copy that URL into most podcast players.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you have a topic that you&#8217;d like us to feature on the podcast, I&#8217;m keen to hear from you and hopefully get you, or your idea, featured on the show. Head to wptavern.com/contact/jukebox, and use the form there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So on the podcast today we have Joshua Bryant. Joshua works at Dow Jones, helping power some of the world&#8217;s largest publishing sites, including the Wall Street Journal, Barron&#8217;s, and MarketWatch, all on a WordPress Multisite platform.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>His background with WordPress started, as it does for so many, by inheriting a site and slowly peeling back the layers of what the CMS can do, from page building to infrastructure and custom workflows.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>At Word Camp US, he delivered a presentation called Reimagining WordPress Editing: How We Embedded Gutenberg Into Our Product Ecosystem, which digs into how his team decoupled the Gutenberg block editor from WP Admin. And embedded it in a standalone React application, all while keeping content stored in a traditional WordPress database.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This episode is a journey into why time, down to the second, matters in the publishing world, and how headless solutions can address those needs.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Joshua explains how editorial workflows were rebuilt so that breaking news can be published, or updated, with lightning fast speeds, removing distractions and page reloads for editors, while retaining the full power and extensibility of WordPress behind the scenes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We talk through the technical architecture, planning, editing, and rendering are split into separate applications with Gutenberg customized down to just two or three essential blocks, living outside the typical WordPress environment.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Joshua talks about the challenge of simulating the global WP object, keeping business logic and proprietary plugins intact, and interacting with the rest API for Instantaneous content publishing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in headless WordPress, editorial workflows at scale, or how Enterprise newsrooms leverage open source tech for real world speed, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you&#8217;re interested in finding out more, you can find all of the links in the show notes by heading to wptavern.com/podcast, where you&#8217;ll find all the other episodes as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so without further delay, I bring you Joshua Bryant.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I am joined on the podcast by Joshua Bryant. Hello.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:25] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Hi.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:03:26] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Nice to meet you. This is the first time that we&#8217;ve ever met. We&#8217;re going to be talking today about, well, the Dow Jones website, but also about headless, I guess is probably the best way to sum it up. So strap in. This is going to be a tinfoil hat episode. I am also going to say at the beginning that this is an episode for which I am supremely unqualified. So I hope that you are going to be able to shepherd me and call me out when I ask a silly question. So let&#8217;s hope for the best.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The reason that I&#8217;ve got you on is because headless is an interesting subject, there&#8217;s that, but also the fact that it&#8217;s Dow Jones that you are dealing with, and the profound importance of that. The fact that, of all the websites I can imagine, there&#8217;s not many which have that requirement to be alive a hundred percent of the time. So that whole piece is going to fit in as well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Before we get into that, would you mind just telling us a bit about you? I mean, we know where you work now, but other than that, tell us about your experience with WordPress and so on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:04:18] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Right. So, I mean, I started, I think like most WordPress people started, I inherited a WordPress website knowing nothing about web development at all. And so I struggled my way through Googling, what is DNS? What does that even mean?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the WordPress offered me the opportunity to grow, and there&#8217;s always something new to learn. So from day one, I started learning about building pages, and then themes, and then plugins. And then I got a job where I was building themes and plugins. And then I got a job where I was really working on the infrastructure behind it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>As I continue to grow, I keep learning that there&#8217;s always another layer to WordPress. And I think I&#8217;m getting close to the bottom, but that&#8217;s what I thought every layer. So I did a little bit of contributing last year when I was here at WordCamp, and I&#8217;m just excited to keep growing and keep learning more about the power that we have in that WordPress environment.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:18] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Thank you for that. So you&#8217;re at WordCamp US, obviously, you&#8217;re talking to me, we&#8217;re in the same room. Presentation that you did or doing?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:26] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Did.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:26] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Did. We&#8217;ll get to that in a minute. It was called Reimagining WordPress Editing: How We Embedded Gutenberg Into Our Product Ecosystem. I might read some of the blurb in a little bit, but first of all, how did it go?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:37] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> I think it went well.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Good.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:05:39] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Yeah. I told the story in the presentation that I teach teenagers a lot. And it was a couple years ago, I&#8217;m in the middle of a lesson and I looked down and nobody&#8217;s paying attention to me because one of the students had gotten so bored, he had started ripping apart his styrofoam cup and he had been eating it. He was halfway through eating the cup. Halfway through my presentation, I look and nobody had done anything sort of like that. So I felt like the presentation went well, people were paying attention. That&#8217;s kind of my benchmark.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:08] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s a good one.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:08] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> I think I&#8217;ve gotten better.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:10] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So here&#8217;s the blurb. And I won&#8217;t do it all, I&#8217;ll get maybe through the first paragraph and hopefully, dear listener, it&#8217;ll give you some context for what&#8217;s going to come in the next 40 minutes, half an hour or so.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What happens when you take the Gutenberg editor out of WordPress? This talk explores how we decouple the block editor from WP Admin and the Loop, embedding it in a standalone React application to power custom editorial workflows, while still saving to a traditional WordPress database.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Now there&#8217;s a lot in there. And I think that subject would be curious if it was just, you know, the mom and pop website, but the fact that you are actually dealing with, forgive me if I get this wrong, dowjones.com. I don&#8217;t know if it is dowjones.com, but it&#8217;s certainly the Dow Jones.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:06:50] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> So Dow Jones as an entity, a fun fact, they no longer own the Dow Jones market. They sold it. But they do own a lot of publishing websites. So they own websites like the Wall Street Journal, Barron&#8217;s, Mansion Global. We&#8217;ve purchased more, I don&#8217;t know if I can say any of the other names right now, but we own all of those entities and so they are on a Multisite.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so right now our publishing system, all of our editors publish from those websites in our WordPress Multisite environment. And all of that, we can talk about headless, but all of that actually goes into this all knowing database in the sky, where our front end systems pick them up. So WordPress itself doesn&#8217;t render wsj.com. We have a mobile team that does that. One way, we have a web team that does it a different way, and they all read from this all knowing database.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But we use WordPress and our editors use it, we call it NewsPress, and we use it to publish all of our content. Our editors find it easy to use, and we like all of the features that WordPress offers. So we&#8217;ve leveraged the power of WordPress to do those things.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:03] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Some of those names were really enormous entities. Did you say the Wall Street Journal, or?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:08] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:09] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I mean, these are ones that I&#8217;ve heard of and I don&#8217;t live in this country, so that&#8217;s pretty profound. So I guess they&#8217;ve got an incredible appetite for traffic, but also an incredible need to be there a hundred percent. Not this 99.8% of the time. This is 100% of the time, I&#8217;m guessing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:26] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Right. And the topic that we&#8217;re going to talk about today, and it applies to all news, but when there&#8217;s breaking news, being first to market matters. Being 10 seconds ahead of your competitor when Taylor Swift gets engaged is an important amount of time when you&#8217;re sending out a push notification. Or in the case of MarketWatch, when there are going to be fluctuations in the market and we have editors listening in on board meetings, being able to send that information out and get that to our readers as soon as possible is the most important thing to our publications.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:08:59] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So is this a project, or an infrastructure, let&#8217;s go with that, that you inherited or were you bought in to build this?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:06] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Both. In the most simple terms, I can explain it, we&#8217;ll say we have three systems. We have a React based planning tool. We have a WordPress editing tool, where we actually write the articles, save the content, control user permissions, lock and unlock posts. And then we have the front end that then takes what they publish and display it in any way that they need across all of our publications. So we have planning, editing and rendering. And those are three completely separate buckets that have been there for quite some time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:09:43] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So we&#8217;re at a WordPress event and we&#8217;re surrounded by WordPressers, so it is kind of a bit of a bubble that we&#8217;re in at the minute. Everybody in this hall, in this place, kind of would understand what you&#8217;ve just described. However, dear listener, hopefully I&#8217;m not besmirching you, but there&#8217;s going to be a bunch of people listening to this who, what you just said went completely over their head.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>They download WordPress, they pay a few dollars a month to pop it on a host that they believe is reliable, and they know there&#8217;s a database somewhere but they&#8217;re kind of using the front end. And that&#8217;s all that they need to concern themselves about. Just explain in more detail what you just said. This React, this editing and this front end. What even is that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:10:20] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Right. I mean you can think of them as three separate applications on your phone. You might use one app, like your calendar, to plan things out. That&#8217;s what our planning tool is. It essentially lets us coordinate with each other and say, hey, we need to have a steady stream of stories. And we also want to attach, our photographers are going to put some images in those stories, so we might add that to the calendar invite description. Those are the kind of things we do in the planning tool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then in the WordPress tool, it&#8217;s a lot like what anybody does in WordPress. We&#8217;re writing posts, we&#8217;re adding images, and in the case of the newsroom, they might do a couple things around SEO, and add some metadata that we want to show up on Google. And I think everybody should be familiar with creating posts.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And then a completely different system picks it up and says, okay, I&#8217;m going to show everybody what it looks like. And that part is not really important because that&#8217;s the headless part. But you don&#8217;t really need to understand that there&#8217;s another system that does this thing differently, to understand what we&#8217;re going to talk about as far as, we moved our editor into, let&#8217;s say, a very simplified tool.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>One example that I like to think about is, when we have done this project, we did it very specifically for the newsroom&#8217;s needs. So we tailored it very, very specifically. But I like to think of the applications of, I like to collect people who have great quotes. When I hear a great quote, I&#8217;m like, oh, I need to write that down. I don&#8217;t want to forget it. I like to think of it as, I want to pull up something like Twitter or Bluesky, and I want to just type in a field, hit send, and then it publishes a post on my WordPress dashboard. It&#8217;s a custom post that says, here&#8217;s a notable tweet. And it posted it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That way I don&#8217;t lose that and I can have it in my WordPress, which is where I keep most of like, I keep my recipes, and my notes, and my blogs, and everything that I want to remember. It&#8217;s like my personal online notebook. But now we&#8217;ve created a mechanism where we can kind of take that and extend it anywhere we want outside of just the WP Editor, and be able to pull something up and say, hey, there&#8217;s a different application. You type it in, you hit send, and then it all runs through WordPress itself.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:12:48] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> What are the reasons why that needed to be done? So just sort of going backwards a bit, really. Obviously that is what is possible, but why is just a default version of WordPress on red hot hosting not something that is suitable in this situation? What affordances does it get you? What performance does it buy you? What UI does it allow you to create that makes this possible? And I think you said you built your own proprietary system. What did you call it, press news or news?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:15] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> NewsPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:15] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> NewsPress, sorry. Wrong way around. So, why? What are the limitations in WordPress that were unignorable that required this?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:13:22] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> I don&#8217;t think there were necessarily limitations. We are talking about shaving seconds off the editor process. And so there are a lot of things in our WordPress system that we want editors to do before they publish a normal article. We want them to have certain SEO titles listed. We want them to have fallback images for headline videos. We are okay with the way everything operates inside of WordPress, but we&#8217;re talking about shaving seconds off by putting it, first of all, in a tool that the editors are already in. They&#8217;re planning their day, they&#8217;re planning their month in the planning tool. And it&#8217;s a single page application. There&#8217;s no page reload. It&#8217;s all in React. There&#8217;s no calling a database that we have to worry about.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We&#8217;re literally just pulling up the Gutenberg editor, typing out a breaking news or a market watch, we call them pulse, some update that we need to get to our readers. And if there&#8217;s a bunch of information that comes in, we need to be able to hit 10 posts with as limited information as possible and get it to publish all the way to the front end, and do 10 in a row as quickly as possible.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:37] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So the raison d&#8217;etre there then is time. It&#8217;s all about shaving seconds off because in the industry that you are in, if you&#8217;re five seconds late, you might as well not publish.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:46] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Right. It&#8217;s time, and it&#8217;s also distraction for our editors. They don&#8217;t have the full editor experience anymore. They don&#8217;t have the sidebar, and all the tabs because we have a lot of stuff in our editor.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:14:58] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, so in this three step process where you&#8217;ve got the React, and we&#8217;ll talk about ripping out Gutenberg and pushing it to this React app in a minute. But we&#8217;ve got the React app where the planning is done, then presumably when the planning is finished, and I&#8217;m going to use the word publish, maybe it&#8217;s not publish, but you hit a button, presumably that pushes it down the funnel towards the WordPress install, which then pushes it to the front end. So there&#8217;s this kind of like one way cycle.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But the idea of the React, Gutenberg bit is that it&#8217;s fast, really fast and distraction free. There&#8217;s just no clutter. It&#8217;s just, you&#8217;re familiar with that interface. Because with the best one in the world, WordPress, there&#8217;s a lot of things going on. When you click publish, quite a lot can happen at that moment. You don&#8217;t want any of that. You just want publish. Boom. Done.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:39] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Right.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:15:40] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. So you&#8217;ve pulled the Gutenberg editor out of WordPress. And, okay, I think it&#8217;s important at this point to say, Gutenberg is an open source project. We&#8217;re mostly familiar with it sitting inside of WordPress, but it doesn&#8217;t belong there. And you&#8217;ve put it inside of this React app. How have you customised it to get it there, and what have you stripped out, what have you added in?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:16:01] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Yeah, great question because part of the reason we decided to continue to use Gutenberg instead of some other React tool is that we&#8217;ve already invested so much time and effort into the business logic around our custom plugins and around the workflow, and we&#8217;ve put so much into our WordPress environment that we asked ourselves, how can we maintain all the equity we have in WordPress and leverage the power of WordPress, but put it in a slightly different place where we can take care of all of our editor&#8217;s needs? And so that was really the driving factor behind, okay, we&#8217;re going to move it here, but we still want all the things we have there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so what we did is we limited the number of blocks. While we might have most of the Core blocks in our regular editor, we have the paragraph and list block in our planning.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:01] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s it?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:01] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Yeah, because that&#8217;s all we needed. That&#8217;s all we needed. And we have a couple custom plugins that we&#8217;ve moved into our planning tool. For instance, in MarketWatch, if you&#8217;re writing a story about Target, you&#8217;re going to want to tag the Target company, and we call it tickers, the stock tickers. And that lets our front end know, hey, this is a story about Target, let&#8217;s put the real time stock ticker information into this article, so it&#8217;s not like, when I wrote it a week ago, this is what the the stock ticker looked like.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>It&#8217;s, when I&#8217;m looking at it right now, this is the real time stock ticker data. We put a lot of time and effort into building that plugin for WordPress, and so we wanted to find a way to not have to rewrite any of that code, not have to redo any of that work, but take what we&#8217;ve already done and just move it to the planning tool and have it work in both locations in the same code base.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:17:55] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So I&#8217;m just trying to understand what that looks like. So let&#8217;s say that I&#8217;m in this planning tool. Somehow I get to that planning tool. I don&#8217;t know where it lives, whether I&#8217;m on a desktop or a website, or an application which lives on Mac OS. I don&#8217;t know. I probably don&#8217;t need to know, but I&#8217;m in it. And it looks like Gutenberg, yeah? I mean it is Gutenberg. Everything&#8217;s the same, except you&#8217;ve got this tiny limited arrangement of blocks. So paragraph, list, and then a couple of others, bespoke ones which you obviously need.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So what happens then when I&#8217;m doing that planning and then I click, I&#8217;m going to use publish again, I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve overhauled the UI to make it something else, but let&#8217;s click publish. What happens at that moment? Where does that go? And how does it fit into the whole flow that we talked about?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:18:36] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Right. So everything that you do in a normal WordPress editor, you can also do using this thing called the REST API. And they&#8217;re just endpoints that exist that you can call to do things like lock a post, save a post, publish a post. And so when we do anything like that inside of our planning tool and we hit publish, it just hits this backend location that says, hey, post number 1, 2, 3, I want you to do what you normally do WordPress, and publish that post for me. And it doesn&#8217;t have to load anything inside of WordPress, it just hits that endpoint and WordPress says, well, I know how to publish. Okay, I&#8217;m going to publish.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And we didn&#8217;t have to load the page, we didn&#8217;t have to hit the WP Admin. It just skips all those steps and says, okay, I&#8217;ll publish for you. And then that sends it off downstream and they all do their thing. So it&#8217;s essentially the same, we just skip some steps.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:34] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. So again, just to emphasise, the whole point of that was to save time.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:39] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:19:39] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That&#8217;s fascinating. That&#8217;s fascinating that time is such an important commodity. I&#8217;ve never come across a scenario, I mean I just don&#8217;t live in that world. I don&#8217;t have a scenario in my head where the amount of time it takes to hit publish and wait for WordPress to do its checks and balances and what have you, or load it up and all of that. But those few moments is important enough.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So you build the React app, it looks like Gutenberg, you hit publish via the REST API, it goes to WordPress, but it misses out all the intermediary things that may happen, and we can get into that in a minute. And then it just hits, it just publishes it immediately.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:15] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Right.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:15] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> That is fascinating.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:16] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> And the great thing about keeping WordPress in the loop there is that if there&#8217;s a breaking news article, we do as rapidly as we can. We&#8217;re going to publish that article. But now it exists in the WordPress database, and we can go back to it and do all of the things that we normally do, but it&#8217;s already published.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So it&#8217;s out there, but now we can go and, just like the regular WordPress editor, we can add images, we can add SEO data, we can do all of those things we&#8217;d normally do. We can post updates, but the post is already out there. So we&#8217;re no longer in a rush, but we still are going to make that story more robust.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:20:53] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So I&#8217;m just trying to be clear, because in your, the blurb for your presentation, you used this phrase, which was custom editorial workflows. I think we just went through that. So React app, WordPress, it gets published, we&#8217;re on the front end. But then at that moment, any modifications, let&#8217;s say, I don&#8217;t know, there&#8217;s an update, somebody has to modify something about it. At this point, you&#8217;re in the middle step. You&#8217;re going to the regular WordPress site and you&#8217;re updating it in there. Have I got that right? You&#8217;re not back the first step.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:20] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Right. We&#8217;re doing all of that in the planning tool. And then if you&#8217;ve been to some of our websites or I think any news website, you&#8217;ll see, last updated, and it&#8217;ll give you a timestamp. That&#8217;s when you get that notification that, hey, this has been updated. It&#8217;s because we&#8217;ve gone back into WordPress and we&#8217;ve added more information that our readers are going to find interesting or important. And we sent it down and there it goes again. Version two is out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:21:45] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Is this kind of standard practice in the journalism industry to have something akin to this because time&#8217;s so important? Or is it something of an affordance that you can have because those publications are already so successful?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Because I&#8217;m imagining it&#8217;s not all that cheap to put that together and maintain. Presumably there&#8217;s got to be developers surrounding it all the time and making sure it&#8217;s updated and kept alive. So I was just curious as to whether or not this is typical or something that you think is pretty unique.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:13] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Well, I&#8217;ll tell you this. This is the first time ever in my career that I have tried to Google things and got zero results. So I don&#8217;t think that it happens a lot. I think it&#8217;s pretty unique. I know our parent company, they own a bunch of other publishing corporations and none of them have done anything like this either. I think this is something that we pioneered and that it&#8217;s great, it was very unfortunate for me to try to figure it out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Were there headaches along the way? Was it really quite a challenge? Have you learned things which other people listening to this podcast, they may think, okay, I need to talk to Joshua. I have a similar crisis on my hands. Was there a lot of learning along the way?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:22:51] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> I think the main thing that I learned was that WordPress has a lot of really good documentation for using it the way that it should be used.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:01] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> The normal way.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:02] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Yes. And so if you want to learn how to use WordPress, the documentation&#8217;s great. If you want to learn how to misuse WordPress, there is not a lot of good documentation out there. And you&#8217;re going to have to read a lot of Trac tickets and GitHub issues and Slack threads and, you know, read through the code.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so, yeah, I will say that, pro, WordPress, great at documenting, but if you&#8217;re going to do something out of the box like this, you&#8217;re going to have to find those alternate sources of documentation, which is just, and how they built it. That was a good lesson and a good learning curve. And I learned a lot about the contributor process through that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:23:40] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. Oh yeah, I&#8217;m sure you did. Did it deliver, or does it deliver in the way that was anticipated at the planning state? So when the stakeholders were sat down and the green light was given to this project, did it come out exactly as expected, or were there things where suddenly you figured, oh, we cannot do this particular thing? Maybe it worked out better than you had originally intended.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:00] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Yeah, so actually, we rolled it out for MarketWatch first and it worked, and they have not complained, at least to me about it. But it was so good that they rolled it out to wsj.com next, and we developed it in such a way that it would be very extendable. And when they rolled it out to wsj, I didn&#8217;t know about it. So it really was a seamless transition. Now we have two of our biggest newsrooms using it, and I think we&#8217;re going to roll it out to Baron&#8217;s next. I don&#8217;t anticipate having to do any work for that either.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:32] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I find this so curious. I think you maybe made yourself fairly indispensable.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:37] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> I wouldn&#8217;t go that far.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It certainly sounds it. So let&#8217;s get into the sort of technical bits and pieces about it, because I&#8217;m reading, cribbing from my notes here. You mentioned in the talk, simulating the global WP Object. And whilst that sounds interesting and is no doubt complicated, what are the critical components of the doing that? How did you replicate it? What was the biggest challenge? Stripping out the editor and making it work somewhere else.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:24:59] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Well, that&#8217;s one of the great things that I learned about the way WordPress works behind the scenes. When you&#8217;re building plugins, you import a lot of WordPress packages that do very specific things. And my assumption was always, when I build my code, it&#8217;s putting all of those packages into the code in one file and then ships it to my website. And that&#8217;s how it works.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>That&#8217;s not exactly how it works. The bundle process for WordPress actually pulls all of those scripts out for speed and efficiency. You don&#8217;t want 20 plugins to have 20 different versions of the same code. And so they&#8217;ve pulled all of that out and it just uses one version of that code. Whatever version of WordPress you&#8217;re on, if I&#8217;m on six three, it&#8217;s going to run the six three version of all of the scripts.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so when we moved our code over into the planning tool, there is no six three in React. It doesn&#8217;t know that these scripts are supposed to be there, and so it was referencing this global object, this Global WP. And if you&#8217;re familiar with doing things in the console, it&#8217;s, you type wp.data.select Core Editor, and you get a bunch of stuff back, right? It doesn&#8217;t exist in React or in Gutenberg. And so that was our first hurdle.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>What WordPress is doing for us, building this object that all the code runs through, we&#8217;re going to have to manually do in React. We&#8217;re going to have to import those packages and set them at the global namespace level just so that the WordPress code will run.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> And how challenging was that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:40] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Well, discovering it was the challenge. Implementing it was the easy part. We went through many iterations of, why is it not working? How will it not communicate? Before we realised that WordPress is doing this for us. And then once we had that realisation, the implementation was rather simple.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:26:59] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> To me, that would&#8217;ve been quite a frustrating process. Going backwards and forwards there. Why isn&#8217;t it working? Why isn&#8217;t it working? And then sort of suddenly realise, oh, it&#8217;s not working because, as you&#8217;ve just described. Yeah, that&#8217;s really interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But you are happy that you went through that process. There&#8217;s no bit at which you thought, okay, we&#8217;re backing out. We&#8217;re not going to use WordPress. We&#8217;re going to use some sort of custom CMS that you can buy off the shelf, any of that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:27:22] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Right. Oh yeah. I mean, if you had asked me a week into my back and forth, I would&#8217;ve said no. And it gives me a deeper understanding of WordPress too, and a deeper appreciation for the decisions that the contributors made when they built it to make it efficient. I never thought about how the WP build process helps developers build efficient websites, even if they don&#8217;t really know what&#8217;s going on. You type in WP scripts build, and then a lot of things happen. But the developers don&#8217;t need to know everything that happens. It just happens. And that&#8217;s great for developers.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>But when I went that step further and I&#8217;m like, why is this happening? I went down the rabbit trail of figuring out what does WP scripts build do, and how can I break it? I want to do something else with it. And then coming all the way back to realising, no, they&#8217;re doing it the right way, the good way. And now that I understand what it does, I can design our system to be in alignment with that.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:26] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, it sounds like you kind of went full circle there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:28] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Oh, I did.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:28] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, that&#8217;s really interesting.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:30] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Circle, spiral.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:31] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, yeah, I&#8217;m sure there was a few spirals. So without giving anything away, how do your stakeholders that need to be a part of the first stage, the planning tool, how do they get to that? Can they access that with their phones? Can they access that with their desktop? How do they interact with that?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:28:46] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Yes, two things are important for us. We want to be able to access it in the office, on a desktop, plan out things. But we also want our reporters to be able to give us breaking news in the field, wherever they are.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:01] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Right. That was where I was going with that, yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:03] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Right. And so that is one driving factor for the decisions that we make when we make these design decisions, and make these application decisions. We need to remove as many barriers from our editors to publishing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And sometimes that&#8217;s, how can we reduce the number of clicks to get a full fledged story out the door? Or it&#8217;s, how do we make this work with as few distractions as possible on a mobile phone when somebody&#8217;s sitting in the back of a boardroom?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:32] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. So available on everything, everywhere. Where there&#8217;s an internet connection, you can get to this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:37] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Yeah.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:29:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, okay. One of the curious things, and again, we&#8217;re going to go into the technical details here, so forgive me if this question is misplaced, because you specifically mentioned replacing Core / Editor with Core / Block Editor. I&#8217;m not really familiar with what that distinction is, but the fact that you mentioned that kind of gave me an intuition that there was something there. So why was that important? And you are going to have to go slightly gently on me cause I don&#8217;t really understand.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:30:01] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> I will gently wade into the weeds here. When we&#8217;re building custom blocks in our process here, a lot of times we use the data stores. And there&#8217;s an editor data store, and a block editor data store. What does that look like in the WP admin? When you pull up a post the block inserter, when you hit the plus on the top left, or you hit add, all of the blocks that show up, that&#8217;s one part of the Gutenberg editor.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>The big chunk in the middle is the second part where you do all your typing, you put your post, you add your images. And then the sidebar on the right, where you make adjustments, is the third part. All three of those components are the Block Editor. Everything that exists outside of that is the broader editor. Think of that as like a giant wrapper around the entire thing. That has like the save button, the publish button. It has information about the post and all of its attributes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so it has much more information. The Block Editor just needs to know what blocks exist on the page. The Editor needs to know about a much broader context inside of WordPress. When we moved the Editor, we moved the Block Editor. So the save button isn&#8217;t there. We&#8217;re not using that. We wrote our own save button that hits the API.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:23] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Can I just pause you there? So when you say the Block Editor, you are describing the three things. The panel on the left, the central area where you create the content, and the sidebar on the right, if you like, where the settings for those might be. But not the wrapper.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:31:36] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Right. And we actually went one step further and said, we don&#8217;t need the left or the right. We just need the part in the middle. We want to make it as distraction free as possible and move it over. So we have the option to put the sidebar there, and the sidebar works, but we have chosen as a business decision, we don&#8217;t want it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And since we&#8217;re headless, whether they change the font or the colour, none of that actually affects our front end. We don&#8217;t want editors to be able to bold and italicise and make all the text red that they think is important because they would go crazy. They think all my text is important.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So yeah, we moved all of just that middle piece, just that Block Editor is what we moved over. And we have a save button, and a publish button that don&#8217;t interact with the WordPress Editor, they interact with the WordPress API.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:32:28] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> The REST API pushing it to the regular WordPress site. Okay, and again, just harking back to what you mentioned a moment ago, when we began this conversation, I was imagining a different thing. I was imagining that you pulled the Block Editor in its entirety out. So I&#8217;ve learned something there. So this is just that content creation area.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And by stripping out the left, and the right, and the publish and all of those things, that&#8217;s where the time saving comes, is it? Is that where the few seconds can be shaved off because it&#8217;s the bare bones of what it requires to create some text on a screen.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:33:00] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Yes, exactly. Because a lot of times it&#8217;s headline, paragraph, send. That&#8217;s it for the first iteration of that article.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:33:07] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So one of the questions that I had, which now appears to be not necessary, but I&#8217;m going to ask it anyway. I was asking about things like, for example, manually editing the content that you would make in the React app, undoing things, history, and so on. That&#8217;s not really what&#8217;s going on. You&#8217;re doing it this one time in the React app, then everything after that is happening in the WordPress website.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So the history and everything is stored in the regular way, the bolding, the italicising, the, I want to make it red, that&#8217;s all done posthumously after the fact, once it&#8217;s been published, or at least shunted via the REST API to the WordPress, you know, the database, the regular WordPress website. So that all happens there. The amendments happen there.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:33:49] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Right. And we still have access to all of the toolbar options. So if you want to add a link, you would do it the exact same way that you add a link in your WordPress post. So we have some of that available to us, but we&#8217;ve locked it down. Not because it won&#8217;t work, but because we don&#8217;t want it to be a distraction for our editors.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:09] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> So is there any type of content that, I&#8217;m trying to imagine a scenario where, presumably not everybody needs the React app. So for example, if I&#8217;m writing a piece about, I don&#8217;t know, gardening or something, you know, it&#8217;s really not time sensitive. I could write this next year and it&#8217;s just as important, or a recipe or something like that. Do I need to be in the React app? Or is that just for the kind of, the journalists out in the field who need things quick? So have you got like this two tier system of editing, the, I need it extra, specially quick, you are in React, but the gardening post is just done as a regular post?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:41] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Yes. And that&#8217;s the majority of our posts, are all regular posts, and they&#8217;ve had time to plan it out and gather their assets, which they do in the planning tool, and all of that information syncs over to WordPress. But they don&#8217;t do any editing other than our breaking news.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:34:58] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay. It&#8217;s the breaking news React app then basically.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:01] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Yes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:01] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Okay, that&#8217;s curious. Sorry, this is sort of sidestepping slightly. So they just create text. They create text and lists and that&#8217;s it. Paragraphs and lists. That&#8217;s all they&#8217;ve got. And when they hit the REST API, does it publish automatically or do they hit some other editorial workflow where somebody more senior gets to look at it? Because I&#8217;m guessing in this scenario where Taylor Swift got married, you just want to go straight to front end.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:35:28] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Yeah. It goes straight to the front end. They have a paragraph and list, that&#8217;s for the core, but they also have some of our proprietary plugins that, like we have a correction, and we have a ticker inserter, and there are a couple ones that we moved over, like our byline. We have a author database, and so they can say, hey, I wrote this. And so that&#8217;s a block that we wrote, and it works in WordPress and it also works in the planning tool, but it&#8217;s very limited what they can do because that&#8217;s all they needed. So we said we&#8217;ll strip everything else out.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:00] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Is it a common workflow then where the same author who&#8217;s written this really time sensitive piece will hit publish over there, it goes from React app, REST API, to WordPress, to the front end? They would then almost immediately, do they at that point let go of it or do they then almost immediately go back to the WordPress website and think, actually, do you know what, I do want that bit bold, I would like to underline that? So yeah, I&#8217;m just curious what that workflow looks like.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:26] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> I think it depends on the situation. And so in one case, while it is a breaking news story, as long as we don&#8217;t convert it to a full article, we can make updates in the planning tool. So he can go back, we can edit that and say, well, I wanted it bold, I&#8217;m going to do it in the planning tool. But if you wanted to, you could also do it in the WordPress environment. When we say convert to an article, we mean, this was breaking news, but I&#8217;m going to click a button and that&#8217;s going to let other editors know, we&#8217;re about to make this a full fledged article.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:56] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Oh, I see.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:36:57] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Yeah. Because a lot of times we have multiple editors working on the same article. And so we need to be in coordination, especially around breaking news. Hey, this is happening right now. I&#8217;ve pushed it out. I&#8217;m going to pass this off to you. Can you go in? Hopefully there are no typos, but fix any typos, or change the headline, or add SEO data. So they really work as a team, especially around breaking news and then pass that off to other editors.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:37:24] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I guess because you&#8217;re in the weeds of this, it&#8217;s so self-evident what this workflow is. It&#8217;s just for me, it&#8217;s so curious that there&#8217;s all these interesting little steps, and behind it all is this desire to save seconds. And it really is absolutely, this is nothing like a WordPress site that I&#8217;ve come across in the past. Hope you&#8217;ll forgive my ignorance for keeping asking the same kind of question. But I find that really fascinating.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>So the gardening post is done on the website, the important timely post is done in the React app, and yet there&#8217;s a convert to, I don&#8217;t know, regular content or something like that, button that an editor can go in and, yeah, it&#8217;s wheels within wheels. It&#8217;s absolutely fascinating.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:01] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Yes. This is why I said earlier, there were so many business rules and so much time spent into building our WordPress system that we didn&#8217;t consider another tool very seriously. Because we have so much invested in there, and there&#8217;s so much power in the WordPress system that we&#8217;ve, first of all out of the box, but second, what we&#8217;ve built on top of it that we said, we need to leverage this in this use case here.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:38:28] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah. Honestly, I think we could probably spend all day talking about this, but we probably should move on.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m curious as to whether any of this knowledge that you&#8217;ve acquired building this, because I know that in the WordPress community, most people don&#8217;t do headless, but there is a hardcore of people like you who just love this stuff.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I&#8217;m just curious as to whether the knowledge that you&#8217;ve gained in the building of this, whether or not any of that gets put back into the open source project, whether there&#8217;s a commitment on your side, on the Dow Jones side to make this available, to open up a repo, to give away the content, the way that you&#8217;ve done it, the knowledge that you&#8217;ve acquired along the way?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:39:02] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Yeah, I think that is ultimately my goal. I started a repo just to show how we moved Gutenberg. There&#8217;s a lot of proprietary stuff that I had to take out of there. This is just my repo at this point. It&#8217;s lacking a lot of the, how do you get a custom block to work over there, at this point? I want to continue to add to that, but I think I&#8217;m also considering what, does this do for the broader WordPress community? How can this be applied to help Core, or to help contractors, or to help people who have a lot of clients.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>One thing I&#8217;ve thought about is, if we have clients who may be difficult, right? I think we&#8217;ve all run into people at one point or another that said, I don&#8217;t like WordPress. I&#8217;ve heard the word React. I want React. People say, React is cool, right? Or I want a Vue project, or I want it to look like this. I don&#8217;t want to go to WordPress backend.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This is opening up a whole different set of opportunities where we can say, okay, I&#8217;m going to throw together, I&#8217;m going to vibe code, which I hate, but I want to vibe code a one page React application, and rely on the WordPress API to give me database, to give me user management, post saves, revision history. You can use WordPress as its own complete system and then just slap React on top of it, and have the full Gutenberg editing experience and save all of your information and still do all the things that you know how to do in WordPress, and your client&#8217;s happy and they don&#8217;t know anything about it.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:40:38] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> It&#8217;s kind of like WordPress without the WordPress. It&#8217;s the look and feel of WordPress without the overhead of WordPress.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:40:43] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> It&#8217;s the power of WordPress. And what I say is the power of WordPress at the speed of breaking news. But it&#8217;s the power of WordPress at whatever the client wants. And so if they want one thing, you can give it to them there. And if you have a lot of clients and you have people spinning up different interfaces, maybe it&#8217;s React, it&#8217;s Vue. You have eight different clients, you can put them all into one Multisite and you can use WordPress as the backend for all of them. And each application looks completely different, tailored to those needs, and it all just goes through the same old WordPress functionality.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:41:20] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, I guess that the way the interface looks is kind of the key bit there. You could make it look like Gutenberg, you could make it look nothing like Gutenberg. It could be anything that you liked. Simple, complicated, whatever.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;m guessing this is really enterprise stuff, though. I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re ever going to be straying into, I don&#8217;t know, I&#8217;ve got a dog walking service and I would like to offer that in my town of 3,000 people. We&#8217;re not for that. This is kind of enterprise, publishing, big pharma, that kind of thing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:41:46] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Enterprise or people who deal with a lot of particular clients. Or people who want to build something cool for themselves, like I want to collect quotes when I hear them. I might build that application so that I can just pull up my phone, send out something like a tweet. I can say, Nathan Wrigley said this. It was really cool. Send. And now it&#8217;s a custom post type on my website called notable quotes, and it&#8217;s just your quote attribution.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:42:15] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Yeah, yeah. I guess the beauty of the open source project, and thank you for honoring the commitment there, hopefully we&#8217;ll get the knowledge distributed, is that the first time around you doing it, it would&#8217;ve been very expensive because you&#8217;re a developer, your time is valuable. So presumably all of that got wrapped into this project. The company that you are working for could afford that. But maybe now it&#8217;s going to be a slightly easier bridge to cross. And I guess communicating with you might make that a little bit easier. I don&#8217;t mean to open up your calendar or anything, but would you potentially make yourself available through email or Slack or whatever? And if that&#8217;s the case, where would people find you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:42:54] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> Of course. I would say that I would love to pass this off. I try to tell myself, when I do something new, I always say, this is going to be the worst it ever is. And so when I&#8217;m looking at this, I see a lot of potential, but I also realise that this state that we&#8217;re in right now is the worst this idea is ever going to be. And I would love for people to come and make it better, and tell me what I did wrong and tell me what I can do better. And to say, but what if we did this instead? And that&#8217;s the beauty of open source. We want to see it grow. We want to see all of the possibilities that we can do with this.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>And so please, first of all, take it, run with it, make it better. And second of all, yes, I&#8217;d be glad to meet and talk with anybody about it. And if I could save somebody the two week spiral, or the two week loop, I would love to do that as well. So yeah, I will absolutely make myself available.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:43:47] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> Where can you be found? What&#8217;s the best place to find you?</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:43:50] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> The best place to find me would probably be at my personal email address, which is j b r y a 0 2 9 at gmail dot com. And that is a carryover from my college years, so it&#8217;s a little weird, but it&#8217;ll work.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:44:06] <strong>Nathan Wrigley:</strong> I&#8217;ll make sure not to put that into the text on the WP Tavern website, but it&#8217;s in the audio now, so hopefully people can find it. Anything that we&#8217;ve talked about, if I can find a link to it, I will put that in. So listeners, head over to wptavern.com, search for the episode of Joshua Bryant. That&#8217;s Joshua, J-O-S-H-U-A and Bryant, B-R-Y-A-N-T. Search over there and you will find all of the bits and pieces.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>I&#8217;ll link to the presentation that Joshua gave at WordCamp US, and maybe that&#8217;ll be on WordPress TV by the time you come to consume this. Anything else that Joshua wants to send me, I&#8217;ll put on there as well. So, Joshua Bryant, thank you for shepherding me through something that was much harder to understand than I&#8217;m capable of. So thank you so much.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>[00:44:49] <strong>Joshua Bryant:</strong> No, thank you. You ask great questions and I appreciate it.</p>\n</div></details>\n\n\n\n<p>So on the podcast today we have <a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2025/speaker/josh-bryant/\">Joshua Bryant</a>.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>Joshua works at Dow Jones, helping power some of the world’s largest publishing sites, including the Wall Street Journal, Barron’s, and MarketWatch, all on a WordPress multisite platform. His background with WordPress started, as it does for many, by inheriting a site and slowly peeling back the layers of what the CMS can do, from page building to infrastructure and custom workflows.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>At WordCamp US, he delivered a presentation called “Reimagining WordPress Editing: How We Embedded Gutenberg Into Our Product Ecosystem” which digs into how his team decoupled the Gutenberg block editor from WP Admin and embedded it in a standalone React application, all while keeping content stored in a traditional WordPress database.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>This episode is a journey into why time, down to the second, matters in the publishing world, and how “headless” solutions can address those needs. Joshua explains how editorial workflows were rebuilt so that breaking news can be published or updated with lightning fast speeds, removing distractions and page reloads for editors while retaining the full power and extensibility of WordPress behind the scenes.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>We talk through the technical architecture: planning, editing, and rendering are split into separate applications, with Gutenberg, customised down to just two or three essential blocks, living outside the typical WordPress environment. Joshua talks about the challenge of simulating the global WP object, keeping business logic and proprietary plugins intact, and interacting with the REST API for instantaneous content publishing.</p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you’re interested in headless WordPress, editorial workflows at scale, or how enterprise newsrooms leverage open-source tech for real-world speed, this episode is for you.</p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Useful links</h2>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://us.wordcamp.org/2025/session/reimagining-wordpress-editing-how-we-embedded-gutenberg-into-our-product-ecosystem/\">Reimagining WordPress Editing: How We Embedded Gutenberg Into Our Product Ecosystem</a> &#8211; Joshua&#8217;s presentation at WordCamp US 2025</p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.dowjones.com\">Dow Jones</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.wsj.com\">Wall Street Journal</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.marketwatch.com\">MarketWatch</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.barrons.com\">Barron&#8217;s</a></p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https://www.mansionglobal.com\">Mansion Global</a></p>\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}s:7:\"pubDate\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:31:\"Wed, 05 Nov 2025 15:00:00 +0000\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}s:32:\"http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/\";a:1:{s:7:\"creator\";a:1:{i:0;a:5:{s:4:\"data\";s:14:\"Nathan Wrigley\";s:7:\"attribs\";a:0:{}s:8:\"xml_base\";s:0:\"\";s:17:\"xml_base_explicit\";b:0;s:8:\"xml_lang\";s:0:\"\";}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}s:4:\"type\";i:128;s:7:\"headers\";O:48:\"WpOrg\\Requests\\Utility\\CaseInsensitiveDictionary\":1:{s:7:\"\0*\0data\";a:9:{s:6:\"server\";s:5:\"nginx\";s:4:\"date\";s:29:\"Tue, 02 Dec 2025 08:04:04 GMT\";s:12:\"content-type\";s:8:\"text/xml\";s:13:\"last-modified\";s:29:\"Tue, 02 Dec 2025 07:45:18 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